End game raid Assassin discussion, tips?

[Mournival]

I'm participating in my guilds T1 raids as a Rogue, I play support bard mostly but when I dps, I do it as Assassin for single target (I've recently learned Blademaster for different fights) as I like to melee, and it seems Trion will reward melee souls with higher dps. I would like to start some discussion about it. Keep in mind, before and if you reply:

• I have read and practiced the Assassin guide on these forums extensively
• I have no issues with rotation, that I know of

I guess the reason I'd like some discussion is because I want thoughts on a few things:

• Should that guide be updated in any way?
• Crit power vs. Attack power, determine off-souls?
• How do we keep that 20k+ number past the 1 minute mark?
• Give your thoughts on Poison Malice, and when you use it

The reason for my thread is that I'd like everyones latest experience playing this build in raids, on single target bosses that don't require much disconnect. My recent experience is that I can have fantastic dps during my 3 opportunities for Cloak and Dagger- Starting the fight out of stealth with a Jagged Strike, then Thread of Death / Jagged macro as first Cloak and Dagger begins to time out, then Slip Away macro right before the second Cloak and Dagger falls off. After that, it seems that dps begins to fall considerably until I pop a Poison Malice during a raid boost, or timers are up on either Thread or Slip Away, but I never seem to regain that dps glory that is the first 30 to 45 seconds of the fight.

[Nynja]

Should that guide be updated in any way?

I guess not..

Crit power vs. Attack power, determine off-souls?

10 MM, 5NB(or 5RS) are top subsouls due to the AP scaling in this spec

How do we keep that 20k+ number past the 1 minute mark?

Use Poison Malice with raidcooldowns(e.g. Flaring Power/Lavafield/Orchestra/wild growth) use enduring brew when low on energy....never fail the rotation

Give your thoughts on Poison Malice, and when you use it

mentioned above

[Fiskerton]

That's just how some specs work. Specs work in two ways: sustained damage and spike damage due to a combat buff. For some specs, one becomes more determining than the other. For example, harbingers rely on their 2 minute cooldown Empyrean Ascension for their dps.

There's no real way to "keep" your spike dps. In fact, I would argue that that 20k isn't your dps at all. Your actual dps is the one that is normalized by a long parse and lots of ToD/PM usage.

[Mournival]

No need to mention "argue", because yes, my dps isn't over 20k for the average. Depending on which boss it is, I can get near, or just over 20k for that first minute, after that.. it is reduced by anywhere from 2 to 4k depending on what mechanics are going on, which of course makes for a lower total average for the fight itself.

I'm just trying to see what other tips may be out there to get the most out of Assassin.

[Fudily]

I'm just trying to see what other tips may be out there to get the most out of Assassin.

Protip: Don't use it. Harharhar, in all seriousness though..

What fights are you running it on? It's bad for Gelidra, bad for Zaviel, bad for Twins, good for Crucia.
Bad for Progeneniitogitor, maybe for Kain but probably not since your raid likely needs damage on Bloods, bad for Matriarch, good for Goloch, bad for Regulos.

That's 2, *maybe* 3 fights that you could see decent DPS from Sin on.

[Nynja]

Protip: Don't use it. Harharhar, in all seriousness though..

What fights are you running it on? It's bad for Gelidra, bad for Zaviel, bad for Twins, good for Crucia.
Bad for Progeneniitogitor, maybe for Kain but probably not since your raid likely needs damage on Bloods, bad for Matriarch, good for Goloch, bad for Regulos.

That's 2, *maybe* 3 fights that you could see decent DPS from Sin on.

i hope the third fight is progenitor! because its quite decent on it(better than NB in my opinion)

Also dont forget to mention TDQ: 1st boss:sin 2nd boss:sin 3rd boss:BD or Sin 4th boss: sin^^

[Mournival]

Protip:
Bad for Progeneniitogitor, maybe for Kain but probably not since your raid likely needs damage on Bloods, bad for Matriarch, good for Goloch, bad for Regulos.

I use it on Prog and Kain just fine, but agree with the rest of what you said. I'll probably start using Bladedancer on Kain, unless the Bloods take less melee AoE.. point is, I don't use it for everything anymore

[Fiskerton]

I use it on Prog and Kain just fine, but agree with the rest of what you said. I'll probably start using Bladedancer on Kain, unless the Bloods take less melee AoE.. point is, I don't use it for everything anymore

Kain bloodthieves take much less damage from all AoE. Before the apocalypse, Nightblade was the best spec for this because their fiery spike spread was not considered AoE, but just a bunch of single target dots. For now, I use bladedancer on it and use HB/DS whenever bloods spawn, even with the AoE reduction.

The issue with Progenitor is target switching for shield, which, depending on the way your raid does it, is a dps loss for assassin. Or your raid could just let you not switch, in which case assassin is perfect.

[Fudily]

I probably should've clarified HM Prog. Though I can only imagine you're not pulling much weight on shields on normal Prog either.

TDQ: 1st Boss yes depending on raid's dps, 2nd Boss yes, 3rd boss yes if you're a designated stand-in leaving wisps up to the others, depending on raid's dps, 4th boss yes if you're at the point where you can burn through her mechanics, depending on raid's dps.

GA: 1st Boss no, 2nd boss no, 3rd boss no, 4th boss no.


Also Fisker, I believe it was Flame Blitz that was not taking the reduced damage. Afaik Fiery Spike still does full damage, it's just not as effective due to the 5CP spread.

[zartosht]

Protip: Don't use it. Harharhar, in all seriousness though..

What fights are you running it on? It's bad for Gelidra, bad for Zaviel, bad for Twins, good for Crucia.
Bad for Progeneniitogitor, maybe for Kain but probably not since your raid likely needs damage on Bloods, bad for Matriarch, good for Goloch, bad for Regulos.

That's 2, *maybe* 3 fights that you could see decent DPS from Sin on.

what are you using on breaker then?

[Fudily]

I use it on Prog and Kain just fine, but agree with the rest of what you said. I'll probably start using Bladedancer on Kain, unless the Bloods take less melee AoE.. point is, I don't use it for everything anymore

My personal choice for build on each fight, as well as my fellow Rogues is:

Gelidra: Ranger
Zaviel: Depends on needs, MM, BD, Sab, Tact, Ranger, NB, all have worked fine. I switch it up every week.
Twins: Sab, others are Tact
Crucia: NB, others are NB or Sin

Prog: MM
Kain: NB
Matriarch: BD or Tact (Sab might work for your raid if you stack adds on boss, but we don't)
Goloch: Sin, others are Sin or NB
Regulos: NB or BD

[Fudily]

what are you using on breaker then?

Breaker is not a T1 raid boss. (And I use NB)

[TheGrinnz]

Kain bloodthieves take much less damage from all AoE. Before the apocalypse, Nightblade was the best spec for this because their fiery spike spread was not considered AoE, but just a bunch of single target dots. For now, I use bladedancer on it and use HB/DS whenever bloods spawn, even with the AoE reduction.

The issue with Progenitor is target switching for shield, which, depending on the way your raid does it, is a dps loss for assassin. Or your raid could just let you not switch, in which case assassin is perfect.

It's not worth AoEing with bladedancer on that fight period, other than with HB/DS for decent main boss DPS. You are better off single targeting and hitting each blood thief (and BD can do that target switching easily). Spreading fiery spike still does full damage, you just can't do it as efficiently and Living Flame isn't up every bloodthief spawn, it's still probably viable though. But bard (MO) and NB are the only rogue specs that can do worthwhile AoE on kain.

[spowers454]

T1 bosses where sin works

TDQ - all
FT -all cept twins but even then you can do it and balance boss health
EE- ALL, cept matriarch

All comes down to whats needed of you and if padding off adds when it isn't needed makes you feel better.

As much of a pain sin is to deal with DC's its still manageable. Make sure to reapply impale before a DC that you would have a long downtime on it. Reapply puncture as your running out and its dps doesn't drop off that bad that quick.

Sin is our best ST spec and should be your go to spec for most every fight.

[Fudily]

Most likely though, what's needed of you won't be minimal efficiency.