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Thread: Nightblade Feedback

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Default Nightblade Feedback

    So, Nightblade is kind of in a bad spot right now. Part of this is a numbers issue (the spec is roughly on par with Ranger), but there are also a number of mechanical issues that really hamstring the soul in practice.

    Problem One: Ramp-up Time
    Nightblade is REALLY bad at target swaps, due to the need to get five stacks of Fiery Spike.

    I think the solution here is fairly simple: replace Death from the Shadows.

    Flash Fire
    20m Range
    24 energy
    20 second cooldown
    Applies 3 stacks of Fiery Spike to the target.

    Basically, this reduces Nightblade's weakness on target swaps while still leaving some limitations (the cooldown, and the need to build the other two stacks yourself).

    Problem Two: AoE Ramp-Up
    The goal seems to be to distinguish Bladedancer and Nightblade by giving Bladedancer great burst AoE, while Nightblade gets better sustained AoE.

    The problem is that Nightblade takes so long to ramp up its AoE that it's just not worth using.

    The simplest solution, in my opinion, is to rework Fiery Chains.

    Fiery Chains
    10m range
    24 energy
    Deals fire damage to up to 6 enemies (this should be less damage than it does right now on live). Applies one stack of Fiery Spike to each affected enemy. Awards one combo point. This ability applies Cinders, increasing the damage of Fiery Chains by 10% and its cost by 15% per stack.

    (And make it so that Ebon Fury also affects Fiery Chains.)

    This actually serves a couple useful purposes.

    First, it makes the AoE rotation more interesting. If the soul is supposed to be used for sustained AoE, it should require more than two buttons to do so. This way, the AoE rotation will require the same energy management as the ST rotation.

    Secondly, it lets Nightblade stack up Fiery Spike more efficiently in the absence of Living Flame. Again, it doesn't completely remove the ramp-up, because that's what Bladedancer is for. And you're still limited in situations where new mobs are constantly added to a pack that you need to AoE, but proper play allows you mitigate those weaknesses.

    If this is implemented, Fiery Spike (the ability, not the DoT) might need to get some initial damage, so that Fiery Chains does not become part of the ST rotation.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Oh, and one more thing... can you please change the name of the finisher buff that you get at 5 stacks of Heat Retention? Since they have the exact same name and duration, addons cannot distinguish between them, meaning that if you try to track how many HR stacks you have with KaruulAlert, it'll freak out when you get five, because it sees that you have five stacks (of the regular buff) and one stack (from the finisher buff) and it basically just chooses randomly which one to display.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    I like the fiery chains rework.

    But I don't understand why st rampup is a problem when we have living flame and dark descent. If the only issue is hitbox, then its more of a coding problem.

    I think it would benefit nb more to change some of its talents to +crit chance instead of things like "increased builder damage"
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  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskerton View Post
    I like the fiery chains rework.

    But I don't understand why st rampup is a problem when we have living flame and dark descent. If the only issue is hitbox, then its more of a coding problem.
    Because both of those are part of the ST rotation, and you cannot hold them in reserve to plan for a target swap without gutting your DPS.

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    Death from the Shadows is indeed useless ability. Dark Malady is better in every single case. So I support the idea to rework it to something that helps with target switching. Equally big portion of NB's target switching penalty comes from Ebon Blades so even with that it's still not going to be that great at it.

    Reworking Fiery Chains could work. I don't think there is need to make it 10 meter range though instead of 20. Cinders sounds like a carbon body of Emptiness so wouldn't it be easier to just use the existing mechanic for it instead? That would solve any issues with single target rotation mixing too because you would be choosing between Dusk Strike and Fiery Chains instead of Primal Strike and Fiery Chains.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Because both of those are part of the ST rotation, and you cannot hold them in reserve to plan for a target swap without gutting your DPS.
    I actually don't use living flame as part of my st rotation because of this (except at the beginning) if I know target swaps as opposed to cleaves are gonna happen. I think a more interesting way of doing it is to use a Salvage Corruption-esque skill. This way a target swap only takes 1 GCD rather than 3 or more if you refuse to manually fiery spike
    ~ | Fiskerton | Fiskermage | Fiskerheals | Fiskerbear | ~

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  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Reworking Fiery Chains could work. I don't think there is need to make it 10 meter range though instead of 20.
    I did that so that Nightblade wouldn't overshadow the ranged AoE souls. It might not end up being a problem, I was just erring on the side of caution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Cinders sounds like a carbon body of Emptiness so wouldn't it be easier to just use the existing mechanic for it instead? That would solve any issues with single target rotation mixing too because you would be choosing between Dusk Strike and Fiery Chains instead of Primal Strike and Fiery Chains.
    That could work too, although Emptiness would probably have to be renamed so that it refers to both fire and death, rather than just death damage.

    Having them use the same stacks would actually be a nerf, however, because having more stacks of Emptiness/Cinders is actually bad unless Ebon Fury is up, due to the way that energy cost increases more than damage does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskerton View Post
    I actually don't use living flame as part of my st rotation because of this (except at the beginning) if I know target swaps as opposed to cleaves are gonna happen. I think a more interesting way of doing it is to use a Salvage Corruption-esque skill. This way a target swap only takes 1 GCD rather than 3 or more if you refuse to manually fiery spike
    You lose 2k sustained dps if you don't use Living Flame in your single target dps rotation. You can't really save it and do well. Living Flame either aligns well with target swapping in which case you can use it, or you take the target swapping penalty as it is or you use a different spec. Saving Living Flame for any kind of extended period of time is a really bad idea.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Oh, and one more thing... can you please change the name of the finisher buff that you get at 5 stacks of Heat Retention? Since they have the exact same name and duration, addons cannot distinguish between them, meaning that if you try to track how many HR stacks you have with KaruulAlert, it'll freak out when you get five, because it sees that you have five stacks (of the regular buff) and one stack (from the finisher buff) and it basically just chooses randomly which one to display.
    power of the planes has the exact same problem

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zartosht View Post
    power of the planes has the exact same problem
    Power of the Planes is less bad, because KaruulAlert allows you to distinguish buffs based on duration. So it can actually tell the difference between the stacks and the finisher itself, unless you're using the finisher at 1CP.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Power of the Planes is less bad, because KaruulAlert allows you to distinguish buffs based on duration. So it can actually tell the difference between the stacks and the finisher itself, unless you're using the finisher at 1CP.
    aha, nice work around

    I guess I'll share these

    KA:Power of the Planes:at/NPeNpNjs0KgzAQhF/FJ2iNGn/Yk6iBXlqR9CbItok0oInEQPHt
    m7SX8s1hh9llBwhw2BY8pIUwMk9v3tJGZo7cS0b9glruULO66l JaNLQtY5IQBnnsD8J67BnU7KBF
    h+fxfhnxoRbljkk9jd5HYVal0Rk7baj0hHY19iTEDgWtoEwzyM og4gF+65vuyrshGPKj8LX4X5JQ
    b/PvY/YBIOE5JQ

    KA:Power of the Planes Missing:aO9/8eNo1jsEKgzAYg1/FJ3Dt1KnkNNTCLkPE3QT5Nysr
    aCu1MHz7Vdn4ckkIJOBosUy0SQsOcVCbj7SBGQP3lkE9kZYrru KaV1GSFkmZMX7mAuzXZ55GjQ4l
    OTp1j1tHTzUpt/XqZfTaDWZWmpyx/UJK92RnY8NhWJEmObIoRpzt4mBhAhTVva0a77x2Iub/iX98
    uMsxKr708DdG

    KA:Power of the Planes Stacks:aAv67eNotTssKg0AM/BW/oHV9VCUn6wN6aBXZ3gRJfdCl6
    sruQpHSf28WykwgkzDJAAMO24z7qMC2JVUt36Ny5OSY5+jUM66 jhrRMk8IPoyzMY5d5rATPJUNJc
    AmNmAzkaPDY3i8tPsQszN6JXq66HeQiVjRSdRuKtUO1SHUYBg1 RmEDsBxDElozOfLTB/qW/cK44r
    65ZceNFQxuiBb20Cf9j36oTaYrxA0giPIc

    these only work for 5cp, if for some reason you find yourself using it at <5cp just make 3 copies of the first one with 30 40 & 50s

  13. #13
    xxs
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    The worst problem w/ target switches are the randomness of ebony blades. Having both touch of darkness and living flame ready effectively solves the problem and it's the best way (boosted by dark malady) to open up. Not using living flame is a huge dps drop, so it's out of question - living flame aside it's fire damage applied the fire spikes (+weapon damage), coupled w/ touch of darkness+dark malady is one of the best bursts in the game.

    W/ 30% chance to apply, 10 attempts result in less 62% odds to apply 3 full stacks of ebony blades, that's quite a significant warm up time.

    Imo, the proposed "flash fire" should also buff up the rogue for 5seconds increasing the weapon enchant odds.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Default An idea for AOE ramp-up

    oh man .. had an idea about adding some synergy between Fiery Chains and Weapon Flare but I didn't think it quite well.

    I was thinking something like make Fiery Chains apply a debuff on the targets it hits and make Weapon Flare when hitting a target with that specific debuff add a stack of Fiery Spike on it. Was thinking like a 2 second debuff meaning each Fiery Chains, the subsequent Weapon Flares add 2 stacks.
    The problem is Fiery Chains has too low of a cooldown, making the thing way way too good even with 2 stacks. It would have added some utility to Weapon Flare, that thing hits like a wet noodle.

    Then there's the 6 targets of Fiery Chains vs 8 of Weapon Flare also randomness when more than 8 targets. Allthough you could turn the Fiery Chains debuff into a self buff for Weapon Flare.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    or add a simil to thread of death, instead of death from the shadows. That fixes everything in the soul and makes the burst dps even higher, since you can use cloak and dagger

    you dont even have to change the name of the talent, its pretty appropriate

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