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Thread: Poisons / Blade Buffs

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Poisons / Blade Buffs

    On Breaker X in IG I mentioned to another rogue playing 61 sin to re-apply his poisons when there was a break in the action and resonance + increased firepower from MM's ap bonuses were there. His and another rogue's reply was that they had "fixed" this and made poisons static, constantly scaling with buffs.

    However, a quick test can show when you receive an AP boost, the damage from the tool-tip for poisons is higher than the tool-tip on your buff bar, thus indicating that re-applying the poison would yield higher dps.

    This is one of my biggest complains with sin dps. To have max poison dps, you should re-apply them during flaring power when your AP is at it's highest. However 3 GCD's to apply poisons during FP is obviously a dps loss. This is why I had asked previously for poisons to be off gcd like harbinger's blade buffs. Either that, or truly making them static and scaling appropriately with raid buffs.

    I'll also take this time to reinforce the idea that rogues are behind other classes in dps. Sin is behind paragon, shaman, harbinger in terms of ST dps, especially with "backstab" not being viable on many encounters. Paragon received a "phantom blades" ability helping it with disconnects, shaman does more dps with incredible aoe burst as well. Sin, along with Nightblade are certainly competitive and not bringing down the raid by being there, but their numbers are lower than other classes.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Dragonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myasa View Post
    On Breaker X in IG I mentioned to another rogue playing 61 sin to re-apply his poisons when there was a break in the action and resonance + increased firepower from MM's ap bonuses were there. His and another rogue's reply was that they had "fixed" this and made poisons static, constantly scaling with buffs.

    However, a quick test can show when you receive an AP boost, the damage from the tool-tip for poisons is higher than the tool-tip on your buff bar, thus indicating that re-applying the poison would yield higher dps.

    This is one of my biggest complains with sin dps. To have max poison dps, you should re-apply them during flaring power when your AP is at it's highest. However 3 GCD's to apply poisons during FP is obviously a dps loss. This is why I had asked previously for poisons to be off gcd like harbinger's blade buffs. Either that, or truly making them static and scaling appropriately with raid buffs.

    I'll also take this time to reinforce the idea that rogues are behind other classes in dps. Sin is behind paragon, shaman, harbinger in terms of ST dps, especially with "backstab" not being viable on many encounters. Paragon received a "phantom blades" ability helping it with disconnects, shaman does more dps with incredible aoe burst as well. Sin, along with Nightblade are certainly competitive and not bringing down the raid by being there, but their numbers are lower than other classes.
    Not only is backstab horrible on that first boss but so is Savage Strike and Final Blow since they all benefit from being behind the mob you are attacking.
    -Smarted the Awesome

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonz View Post
    Not only is backstab horrible on that first boss but so is Savage Strike and Final Blow since they all benefit from being behind the mob you are attacking.
    I think you mean they all have penalties when in front of the mob. We shouldn't consider doing and equal amount of single target damage as other classes a bonus for being behind a mob.

  4. #4
    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    Default

    INC change to make rebuffing blade buffs not working anymore.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    You are strictly going off the tool-tips? I know for an absolute fact the tool-tips are dead wrong and have thoroughly tested it myself; just for the heck of it, I just tested this one live:

    (Yes, Cruel Vengeance, Magnify Pain, Increased Firepower, and Greater Essence Procs were taken into account)

    Baseline (no buffs whatsoever when casting Virulent Poison)
    2206 Virulent Poison hits

    2x 80AP Whetstones-no recast (the AP granted by whetstones is considered a buff and is treated the same way any buff which grants AP would)
    2246 Virulent Poison hits

    Recast while all personal buffs and whetstones were active
    2246 Virulent Poison hits

    Taking into account the fact whetstones and Increased Firepower operate in the same manner as any other raid buffs, it is safe to say the poisons are working properly and actively scale depending on which buffs are currently up.

  6. #6
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myasa View Post
    On Breaker X in IG I mentioned to another rogue playing 61 sin to re-apply his poisons when there was a break in the action and resonance + increased firepower from MM's ap bonuses were there. His and another rogue's reply was that they had "fixed" this and made poisons static, constantly scaling with buffs.

    ...

    This is one of my biggest complains with sin dps. To have max poison dps, you should re-apply them during flaring power when your AP is at it's highest. However 3 GCD's to apply poisons during FP is obviously a dps loss. This is why I had asked previously for poisons to be off gcd like harbinger's blade buffs. Either that, or truly making them static and scaling appropriately with raid buffs.
    They did fix it awhile back. Although, I think the word you mean is dynamic and not static. Anyway, I know I tried it some time ago just to make sure that it was fixed (tried poisons and even the restorative/curative engine stuff as well). The tooltips will still be "stuck" at whatever value you rebuffed at I think, but the actual effect should be correct.

    I could be wrong and maybe something broke not too long ago.
    White Fang

    Adastra@Greybriar

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fattslice View Post
    You are strictly going off the tool-tips? I know for an absolute fact the tool-tips are dead wrong and have thoroughly tested it myself; just for the heck of it, I just tested this one live:

    (Yes, Cruel Vengeance, Magnify Pain, Increased Firepower, and Greater Essence Procs were taken into account)

    Baseline (no buffs whatsoever when casting Virulent Poison)
    2206 Virulent Poison hits

    2x 80AP Whetstones-no recast (the AP granted by whetstones is considered a buff and is treated the same way any buff which grants AP would)
    2246 Virulent Poison hits

    Recast while all personal buffs and whetstones were active
    2246 Virulent Poison hits

    Taking into account the fact whetstones and Increased Firepower operate in the same manner as any other raid buffs, it is safe to say the poisons are working properly and actively scale depending on which buffs are currently up.

    I was just going off of the tool tips, I tested it in a similar manner and you are right. The poisons are working appropriately, just wrong tool tips.

    Now all we have left to do is complain about positional requirements.
    Last edited by Myasa; 09-27-2013 at 11:30 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myasa View Post
    I was just going off of the tool tips, I tested it in a similar manner and you are right. The poisons are working appropriately, just wrong tool tips.

    Now all we have left to do is complain about positional requirements on specific fights where our spec might not be "optimal" but is still quite viable due to fight mechanics.
    Fixed that for you.

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