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Thread: (Another) Suggestion for Marksman

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default (Another) Suggestion for Marksman

    First off, I know marksman is at a pretty good spot right now, and is not in dire need of buffs. However, my suggestions are mostly QoL changes.

    1. Sentry Battery

    The problem I have with it is targeting. It's hard to see which is the furtherest mob especially when mobs are grouped together and have different height. It's even worse when you draw mob aggro and it starts running towards you and thus leaving no mobs in between.

    I think it would be better if the skill allows you to put down a target and damages up to 5 enemies between you and the target.

    2. Decoy

    To keep the skill mostly as it is, while removing the "pet" aspect of it, I think it's better if the decoy does no damage, but instead gives a damage buff to the player. The cooldown could also be increased to 90s from 60s, while increasing its power proportionately. This is better for raids since with 40% CD reduction, it comes out as 54s CD, and is able to match raid CDs perfectly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyd View Post
    First off, I know marksman is at a pretty good spot right now, and is not in dire need of buffs. However, my suggestions are mostly QoL changes.

    1. Sentry Battery

    The problem I have with it is targeting. It's hard to see which is the furtherest mob especially when mobs are grouped together and have different height. It's even worse when you draw mob aggro and it starts running towards you and thus leaving no mobs in between.

    I think it would be better if the skill allows you to put down a target and damages up to 5 enemies between you and the target.

    2. Decoy

    To keep the skill mostly as it is, while removing the "pet" aspect of it, I think it's better if the decoy does no damage, but instead gives a damage buff to the player. The cooldown could also be increased to 90s from 60s, while increasing its power proportionately. This is better for raids since with 40% CD reduction, it comes out as 54s CD, and is able to match raid CDs perfectly.
    1. I like that idea

    2. Decoy is a essentially a dot and IS indeed decent dps gain (offgcd and does decent damage). And its mechanic isnt exclusive to rogue, necromancer has similar stuff. I have no comment here.

    I am overall satisfied with marksman (a little more damage would be cool) but Id wish they change how strafe deals damage.
    It feels slow (and deals damage once a second which is the same as the gcd), wouldnt it be super cool if they half the damage but ticks twice as often (so damage goes in once every .5 second) and make the sound matching the attack speed, and make electrified procs on every tick, viola cool machine gun feeling attack that's also better dps than previous boring design.
    Last edited by WarUltima; 09-21-2013 at 01:28 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Dragonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    1. I like that idea

    2. Decoy is a essentially a dot and IS indeed decent dps gain (offgcd and does decent damage). And its mechanic isnt exclusive to rogue, necromancer has similar stuff. I have no comment here.

    I am overall satisfied with marksman (a little more damage would be cool) but Id wish they change how strafe deals damage.
    It feels slow (and deals damage once a second which is the same as the gcd), wouldnt it be super cool if they half the damage but ticks twice as often (so damage goes in once every .5 second) and make the sound matching the attack speed, and make electrified procs on every tick, viola cool machine gun feeling attack that's also better dps than previous boring design.
    I like where some of this is going but some of the other parts I just don't feel for them.

    I was thinking of maybe making decoy a permanent pet, something that just stays up for forever. It wouldn't be named decoy it would be named something like rifleman or bowman or something like that, had its own set of moves and looked awesome.
    Last edited by Dragonz; 09-21-2013 at 05:41 AM.
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    Ugh, please no permanant pet for Marksman.

    My opinion has always been that the only Rogue soul that uses pets should be the Ranger. Marksman shouldn't have anything to do with pets, not even temporary pets like the Decoy (which doesn't even fit the soul at all...).

    Keep the playstyles of the two as different as is humanly possible whilst still keeping them both useful.
    Last edited by Kedon; 09-21-2013 at 06:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonz View Post
    I was thinking of maybe making decoy a permanent pet, something that just stays up for forever. It wouldn't be named decoy it would be named something like rifleman or bowman or something like that, had its own set of moves and looked awesome.
    We already have a pet spec that's saddled with the myriad of issues caused by pet management and pet AI. Let's not add another one.
    Last edited by Muspel; 09-21-2013 at 06:50 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Dragonz's Avatar
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    So then get rid of decoy completely and replace it with a builder that does significantly more damage than Swift Shot, just reword the talent "Full Metal Jacket" to include new ability
    Last edited by Dragonz; 09-21-2013 at 07:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    I am overall satisfied with marksman (a little more damage would be cool) but Id wish they change how strafe deals damage.
    It feels slow (and deals damage once a second which is the same as the gcd), wouldnt it be super cool if they half the damage but ticks twice as often (so damage goes in once every .5 second) and make the sound matching the attack speed, and make electrified procs on every tick, viola cool machine gun feeling attack that's also better dps than previous boring design.
    Strafe is used mostly to gain back energy though, so I'm fine with it since it forces the player to choose between higher DPS or energy refill. Making it a higher DPS skill to be used once it's off CD will be quite boring.

    Regarding Decoy, even though there are better suggestions out there, those requiring drastically changes are quite unlikely to be implemented. The change suggested does not require new models, new animations etc. There are only 2 specific changes: remove decoy's damage and add a damage buff to player.

    I was mainly addressing people's problem with the skill that it is uncontrollable, dies to AoE easily, pet mechanic on a non-pet class. With the change, the decoy is exactly that, a decoy that does nothing except to confuse people in PvP. PvE wise it will be pretty useless I guess, but it could be further changed that all threat is transferred to the decoy, and give it a HP buff etc.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    I'd rather decoy be a utility spell by intercepting the next damage done against the rogue, so it does what a decoy should be doing

    having it give a damage buff doesn't really solve its problems because (if i understand correctly) once it dies we lose the buff. the dying part is decoy's major problem
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    Turn Decoy into a buff with equal cooldown and duration with a 10% increased damage component.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskerton View Post
    having it give a damage buff doesn't really solve its problems because (if i understand correctly) once it dies we lose the buff. the dying part is decoy's major problem
    Oh no, I meant that the 15s buff stays regardless of whether the decoy dies during the 15s. Currently there's no buff component, the damage comes from the decoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    Turn Decoy into a buff with equal cooldown and duration with a 10% increased damage component.
    That's exactly what I'm suggesting, except it still sends out an NPC. I'd much prefer if the cooldown is increased along with damage buffed, since it would actually tie in with other raid buffs like Wild Growth, Power Core, Orchestra of the Planes etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyd View Post
    Strafe is used mostly to gain back energy though, so I'm fine with it since it forces the player to choose between higher DPS or energy refill. Making it a higher DPS skill to be used once it's off CD will be quite boring.
    Hmm am I missing something? Unless something significantly changed to MM I am pretty sure Strafe isnt used to "mostly to gain back energy", its a *clear* dps gain over swift shot spam and should be used on cooldown, while not clipping into RFS cooldown.

    MM energy should be managed by using only DES, and it rarely happens in raid. MM isnt an energy starved spec, not even close, especially with correct rotation with the use of DES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    Hmm am I missing something? Unless something significantly changed to MM I am pretty sure Strafe isnt used to "mostly to gain back energy", its a *clear* dps gain over swift shot spam and should be used on cooldown, while not clipping into RFS cooldown.
    Oh, sorry. I just checked and yeah you're right. I'm not sure where I got that idea from. Probably my own fancy that it should be working that way.

    Just to check, isn't DES a DPS loss over Hasted Shot? I remember reading before that it's better to spam HS until you run into energy issues. Is there a more concrete indication of when to use DES?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyd View Post
    Just to check, isn't DES a DPS loss over Hasted Shot? I remember reading before that it's better to spam HS until you run into energy issues. Is there a more concrete indication of when to use DES?
    DES is a DPS gain if the following conditions are met:
    1. You don't need to move.
    2. Rapid Fire Shot is on cooldown.
    3. Free Recoil is not active.
    4. Free Recoil will not come off cooldown during the cast.
    Last edited by Muspel; 09-22-2013 at 09:38 AM.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    Regarding DES and Strafe, I always use them together because for some odd reason, if you free recoil -> deadeye shot it won't register the next empowered shot unless you used strafe right before free recoil

    weird
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  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskerton View Post
    Regarding DES and Strafe, I always use them together because for some odd reason, if you free recoil -> deadeye shot it won't register the next empowered shot unless you used strafe right before free recoil

    weird
    The reason for this is because Empowered Shot has a cooldown. The cooldown is reset when you use a finisher-- normally, when you use a finisher, it hits, the cooldown resets, and then there's a 1 second GCD for you to queue up Empowered Shot.

    However, Deadeye Shot has a cast time, and Empowered Shot's cooldown doesn't reset until it finishes. The GCD expires during the cast time, so what happens is that you have a latency delay when you try to go straight from Deadeye Shot into Empowered Shot.

    The normal workaround for this is to just use Swift Shot for the first builder after Deadeye Shot, but obviously you don't want to do that when Free Recoil is up (since then you'd go to 6CPs, which is a waste). Hence the reason for not using Deadeye Shot if FR is active.

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