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Thread: Bard heals

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    Default Bard heals

    I was thinking if they had Invigorated Soul had its healing percentage raised to 9% ATP would it break soul? i have been a fan of bard healing/support for a while now but i feel like the cadence healz are lackluster. Im not trying to make them op but a nice slight boost from attack power wouldn't hurt right?
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    No. Try multiple oscillations cadence or virtuoso coda of restoration sometime ;)

  3. #3
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    Try multiple oscillations cadence or virtuoso coda of restoration sometime
    I have. Decent for keeping yourself up while out in the world on an accidental overpull, useless for anything else.

    Coda of Restoration is particularly offensive in how bad it is. I don't even use it anymore. I can run Virtuoso and spam that Coda, and people's HP bars barely even move. The radius of effect is also extremely small.

    Motif of Regeneration + Cadence with 3 targets to Oscillate off of do -far- more healing than the Coda does. I'm quite literally better off spamming Cadence than ever using CoR. Why spend a global cooldown and all your stars on inferior healing when you could be doing more and gaining stars?

    Best thing I've found for Virtuoso and healing is the ability to spam Harmonic Distortion heals while being able to immediately replenish the counter with a free coda. Harmonic Distortion actually heals for enough that the person being healed notices it happened.

    I don't expect bards to be able to heal as well as a Warden. But what there is now is just extremely sub-par. It was better during alpha when healing power was keyed off of the damage you did. Admittedly, it was probably TOO good then, and Multiple Oscillations didn't exist to make it even better.
    Last edited by Matuse; 09-16-2013 at 03:26 PM.

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    There are real comments to be made, but I have got to say I live the fact that you call combo points stars.

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    Combo points has always been a misnomer. They show up as stars under my portrait, and so that's what I call them.

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    Ascendant Ailene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Combo points has always been a misnomer. They show up as stars under my portrait, and so that's what I call them.
    Aren't those skulls?

    As for the rest. I wouldn't call being able to do 10k+ HPS (Multiple Oscillations) in a raid for useless. On top of that we can change between DPS and heals from a gcd to another. And never forget what we add to the raid when it comes to buffs and debuffs.

    If you're looking to get high numbers, Bard is probably not the way to go. If you find it enjoyable to support your raid at your best, find out when to do what to be a biggest possible gain for your raid, it's an amazing role to play. Too many people (not saying you do) think Bard is making sure motifs are up and then cadence spam. Sad, cause Bard has so many other tools that makes it such a great role to play. No boring rotation to learn, it's all about reacting when needed.

    Now I'll shut up before I move even further off topic here...

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    While 10k is theoretically possible, that sort of healing requires an extremely tight healing comp such that I can't really imagine a fight like that.

    Anyway, at this point I just don't get the idea behind bard numbers. They are objectively not good however you want to compare it. Our ST DPS is abysmal and our HPS requires gimicks to be of real strength. My strong suspicion is that they are hobbled solely because they can screw up PvP. I remember right when the game started, we were gloriously OP in WFs. I understood the nerfs at the time and still get the point from a PvP standpoint. Bards are very still strong pug v pug pvp healers. That's mostly distributed low level AoE damage which we are very good at handling.

    I will never understand why Cadenza is so lackluster though. We sacrifice the vast majority of our healing for 30% extra DPS? Our original baseline is so low that 30% extra is still terrible. I've noticed recently as I've focused more on DPS that Coda of Wrath is actually a fairly strong finisher.

    However, at the end of the day, I enjoy the play style. I'd like it more if I could play it outside of large group activities, but that's mostly what I do

  8. #8
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    Stupid edit timer.

    Maybe if builders just cannot do adequate damage because you can combine it with Restoration, they could do something interesting with Power Chord and maybe Harmonic Distortion. You have to combine them in such a way that damaging finishers are increased substantially in power. Power Chord could be a Shadow Fire like buff and Harmonic Distortion could be a mob debuff or something. DPS could use some sort of complexity to make it such that choosing HPS or DPS is more than just a gcd change.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Bard isn't about numbers, they are just nice to have. Bard DPS makes the difference in several fights in GA with certain comps, it's less noticeable in larger raids.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 09-17-2013 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Bard isn't about numbers
    This is one of those tautological comments re:Bards that annoys the crap out of me. Why? Archons, Defilers and Beastmaster are able to squeeze out some more than respectable numbers, but when it comes to rogues, it's not about the numbers. Why?

    For that matter, in a game like this where the numbers are the only objective benchmark is something ever not about the numbers? These things are 3d spreadsheets.

    The rest is even more confusing, in larger settings, bards are even stronger in what they bring. It's not like there's a finite pool of buff the bard brings and it's spread evenly among the raid. We are "everyone gets a car." It's just that in GA some of the checks are so tight that the bonuses the bard brings are cumulatively more use than a single extra car.

    The problem is that they aren't compelling on an individual level or in a smaller setting. There was that a whole thread last month on the topic of not barding in five mans.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inshalla View Post
    This is one of those tautological comments re:Bards that annoys the crap out of me. Why? Archons, Defilers and Beastmaster are able to squeeze out some more than respectable numbers, but when it comes to rogues, it's not about the numbers. Why?

    For that matter, in a game like this where the numbers are the only objective benchmark is something ever not about the numbers? These things are 3d spreadsheets.

    The rest is even more confusing, in larger settings, bards are even stronger in what they bring. It's not like there's a finite pool of buff the bard brings and it's spread evenly among the raid. We are "everyone gets a car." It's just that in GA some of the checks are so tight that the bonuses the bard brings are cumulatively more use than a single extra car.

    The problem is that they aren't compelling on an individual level or in a smaller setting. There was that a whole thread last month on the topic of not barding in five mans.
    Beastmaster and Archon do no noticeable healing, so they do more DPS. Defiler does not provide raid buffs so there is no comparison. You do not seem to understand the value of the combination of raid buffs, healing and DPS which can be emphasized in one direction or the other on a whim. It's like how people didn't enjoy Archon until Pyrochon came along (61 Archon still needs a purpose, by the way...). People just want big numbers, even if they know they could be giving bigger numbers overall they want to see them on the screen, they want other people to know about them, they want something to directly improve. And that's an issue of your psychological approach to the soul. That's just not how Bard is most effective.

    As for solo/small group usage, you may have a point, but it's far more useful for both solo and dungeon play than any other support spec in the game.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 09-17-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Beastmaster and Archon do no noticeable healing, so they do more DPS. Defiler does not provide raid buffs so there is no comparison. You do not seem to understand the value of the combination of raid buffs, healing and DPS which can be emphasized in one direction or the other on a whim. It's like how people didn't enjoy Archon until Pyrochon came along (61 Archon still needs a purpose, by the way...). People just want big numbers, even if they know they could be giving bigger numbers overall they want to see them on the screen, they want other people to know about them, they want something to directly improve. And that's an issue of your psychological approach to the soul. That's just not how Bard is most effective.

    As for solo/small group usage, you may have a point, but it's far more useful for both solo and dungeon play than any other support spec in the game.
    I will thank you kindly not to put words in my mouth. I am exactly aware of the benefit of the bard to a raid. You on the other hand with your comment that it's less noticeable outside of a 10 situation,

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz
    it's less noticeable in larger raids.
    Wherein exactly the opposite is the case...

    Anyway, a bard using Cadenza and Wrath is exactly analogous to a Beastmaster. In both cases, the only healing available is Motif of Regeneration or Call of Kinship. However, in that situtation a bard brings about 8k-10k DPS depending on gearing and the Beastmaster can do upwards of 15k.

    The lack of complexity and the ease of swap between subpar DPS and subpar healing are the only poor reasons beyond the standard "because".

    If that's the case, add complexity resulting in additional DPS and/or HPS. Develop mechanics to add a real opportunity cost to swapping.

    However, in the end, as I said. I enjoy most of what the gameplay brings as a bard. I think it would be more fun to add to that.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inshalla View Post
    I will thank you kindly not to put words in my mouth. I am exactly aware of the benefit of the bard to a raid. You on the other hand with your comment that it's less noticeable outside of a 10 situation,



    Wherein exactly the opposite is the case...
    That was referencing the Bard's personal DPS and how noticeable it is among the raid. Not the Bard's total contribution. I will thank you kindly to not take my quotes out of context.

    Anyway, a bard using Cadenza and Wrath is exactly analogous to a Beastmaster.
    No it is not, because a beastmaster cannot then choose to use Cadence instead.

  14. #14
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    The almighty because! Bow down!

    Swap to lack luster heals from subpar DPS. Compelling. So because I can make the choice between 4k DPS/2k HPS and 8K DPS, bards have to do 50% of the DPS of the role compatriots? When that healing comes at the expense of the most likely present chloro who's raid heals they snipe?

    No worries though, the almighty because has got it. I understand.

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inshalla View Post
    The almighty because! Bow down!

    No worries though, the almighty because has got it. I understand.
    When you say things like this, no one is going to take you or your complaint seriously. Please, act like an adult when you want to make a point.

    Bards are there for buffs. 61 bard is there for powerful raid-wide buffs in VoJ and OotP. if you want to do healing or damage while supporting, go tactbard or 61 tact

    To the OP: bards don't need to do more (or any) healing because there are actual raid healers in place. They are there as a last resort to Virtuoso -> Heal Coda spam
    Last edited by Fiskerton; 09-17-2013 at 05:39 PM.
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