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Thread: How to make everyone happy with Tact.

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Default How to make everyone happy with Tact.

    Tact is one of those crazy souls that can do everything, but at the same time does nothing.

    Why do I say that? Well:

    It doesn't do much DPS at all, so it doesn't work well there.
    Its healing isn't on par with heal specs (naturally).
    It doesn't bring much to the table as a support soul.

    How can this be fixed?

    Fix Necrotic Engine and Curative Engine.

    Necrotic Engine: Currently increases damage of Bolts and Rays by 30%, reduces damage of Torrents by 30%. How can we fix this? Increase damage of Bolts and Rays by 30% and increase Torrent Damage by 15%. This will make Tactician a fairly decent AE DPS spec, with sub-par ST DPS.

    Curative Engine: Currently works as a self heal function. Toss that function (Restorative Engine works the same way instead it does AE heals, not just self heals). Make it increase the healing of all abilities by 10% and reducing the cooldown of all non DPS abilities (remotes, cores, coils) by 1/2 of what they are now. Change the name so it isn't as misleading.

    Restorative Engine: Keep it how it is for the most part (heals 10 party/raid members for 1,500 or so when Empyrean Bolt/Curative Bolt is used). But, make it increase all healing of abilities by 40%, making it a decent AE healing spec.

    Tactician would work as a(n):
    - AE DPS spec (how it was pre-hotfix)
    OR
    - Support heals spec
    OR
    - AE heals spec

    With this, the people who want it for Tact/Man could have it how they want it, those who want to be almost a true heal spec can have it that way, and those who want it to be a decent support spec can have it too.

    Everyone would be happy. Any comments or something to add?
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

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    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Sounds like you've never played tactician.

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Sounds like you've never played tactician.
    Never in a raid setting (for obvious reasons) but I leveled in Tactician and did dungeons in it. Those numbers are rough estimates.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    Shadowlander Aubree's Avatar
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    Tactician isn't supposed to have AOE damage, it was always meant to be support with extra heals. (36/40 i pull 6k HPS on Ultane)

    Trion literally JUST nerfed it's aoe damage, so anything to do with the sort will most likely be ignored. We've got sab for that.

    IMO it just needs damage reduction abilities lower in the tree because 61 tact is really useless atm.

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    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    the thing is, as long as tact has the ability to be all 3, balancing will never allow it to be on par with any soul that specializes in either of those 3, making such changes pointless

    the best way to go about "fixing" tactician is to find something the rogue calling doesn't have yet and make it that role. the only obvious answer is main healing, which won't happen for obvious reasons

    or, we can simply relegate it as the end-all solo spec
    Last edited by Fiskerton; 08-26-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskerton View Post
    the thing is, as long as tact has the ability to be all 3, balancing will never allow it to be on par with any soul that specializes in either of those 3, making such changes pointless

    the best way to go about "fixing" tactician is to find something the rogue calling doesn't have yet and make it that role. the only obvious answer is main healing, which won't happen for obvious reasons

    or, we can simply relegate it as the end-all solo spec
    Do we really have to be limited to saying each soul can only do one thing? We don't play as a soul, we play as a combination of souls. If Tactician has a mixture of healing and aoe dps talents, is there any reason why taking all the aoe dps talents, and mixing with aoe dps talents in other trees should not give a top end aoe dps build. Looking at the old 41/35 spec, for example, it could do so little healing that I cannot think of any situation where you would have tried to switch to healing instead of dps. The fact that more healing would be available at 61 points in tact should be entirely irrelevant if the specific build does not take those talents.

    It is unfortunate that builds which make use of the soul system seem to be getting hit and nerfed. Ideally it would be great to see some synergy between sab aoe and tact aoe so we could have a variety of play styles depending on the mix of talents.

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    It wasn't supposed to be AE damage but it was like it for so long that people expected it. It shouldn't be the *best* at all 3, it should just be able to do it alright.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    It wasn't supposed to be AE damage but it was like it for so long that people expected it. It shouldn't be the *best* at all 3, it should just be able to do it alright.
    Again, "it" was not the best at all 3. A build specifically designed around aoe damage was best at aoe damage, but was useless for healing or support. This is where we need to get away from thinking about tac, or any other soul, and start thinking about builds. After all, one of the most interesting parts of this game is the fact that you can mix and match talents so easily.

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Alternatively, raid encounters could be set up to require more AoE damage in general, which would by proxy boost the usefulness of an AoE damage spec that can also assist with raid healing and mitigation.

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    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altyrann View Post
    Again, "it" was not the best at all 3. A build specifically designed around aoe damage was best at aoe damage, but was useless for healing or support. This is where we need to get away from thinking about tac, or any other soul, and start thinking about builds. After all, one of the most interesting parts of this game is the fact that you can mix and match talents so easily.
    this would be a way to think if tact had worthwhile talents low in the tree besides curative engine to mix and match with. the only reason it worked with marksman was because marksman actually had worthwhile talents to mix and match other souls with

    also, in the way back, all the top-end builds were hybrids. it was super hard to balance, so trion just said **** it and reworked things to be good at 61 point
    Last edited by Fiskerton; 08-26-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altyrann View Post
    Again, "it" was not the best at all 3. A build specifically designed around aoe damage was best at aoe damage, but was useless for healing or support. This is where we need to get away from thinking about tac, or any other soul, and start thinking about builds. After all, one of the most interesting parts of this game is the fact that you can mix and match talents so easily.
    When most specs consist of 61/15 or 61/7/8 point spreads, you should keep an eye on souls too, not just specs.
    Last edited by Fragasm; 08-26-2013 at 02:27 PM.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    Shadowlander
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    Default .

    I can still pull 20-24k on Matriarch; just had to change up a few things in the rotation. Still a very viable AE spec IMO.
    Grammar: The difference between knowing you're sh*t and knowing your sh*t...

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    A couple issues with the Tactician's healing aspects that might be worth thinking about:


    - Aside from the, quite strong, Curative Torrent all of Tactician's healing abilities are, individually, very weak 'trickle' HoT heals. Such healing tends to not be very useful despite looking good on a HPS parse.

    It's been suggested front loading Curative Blast's healing some so it has something else to call upon when Torrent isn't practical - or generally just make it's non-Torrent healing abilities a lot more significant than they are.


    - Synergy between it's healing and DPS abilities. Defiler, another damage/healer hybrid soul, has it's two aspects cleverly linked by the way it builds Foul Growth while DPSing. Some kind of mechanic for Tactician that similarly ties together it's damage and healing could lead to some much more tactical gameplay for the soul and generally make everything feel a lot smoother.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedon View Post
    A couple issues with the Tactician's healing aspects that might be worth thinking about:


    - Aside from the, quite strong, Curative Torrent all of Tactician's healing abilities are, individually, very weak 'trickle' HoT heals. Such healing tends to not be very useful despite looking good on a HPS parse.

    It's been suggested front loading Curative Blast's healing some so it has something else to call upon when Torrent isn't practical - or generally just make it's non-Torrent healing abilities a lot more significant than they are.


    - Synergy between it's healing and DPS abilities. Defiler, another damage/healer hybrid soul, has it's two aspects cleverly linked by the way it builds Foul Growth while DPSing. Some kind of mechanic for Tactician that similarly ties together it's damage and healing could lead to some much more tactical gameplay for the soul and generally make everything feel a lot smoother.
    I would love for some work to be done on Tactician's other healing abilities to make them work better with the torrents. Buffs need to happen at least at the 44+ level or so though, to hopefully prevent hybrid issues from resurfacing.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    Curative Engine: Currently works as a self heal function. Toss that function (Restorative Engine works the same way instead it does AE heals, not just self heals). Make it increase the healing of all abilities by 10% and reducing the cooldown of all non DPS abilities (remotes, cores, coils) by 1/2 of what they are now. Change the name so it isn't as misleading.
    Hell no.

    That would gut the self-healing of every rogue soloing spec in the game, and the change that you're proposed doesn't even offer any interesting gameplay-- it would just be macroed to certain cooldowns and forgotten about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aubree View Post
    Tactician isn't supposed to have AOE damage
    lolwut

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