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Thread: What is constant deviation for?

  1. #1
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    Default What is constant deviation for?

    title. if they placed this much lower on the tree, could maybe see riftstalker dps variants again
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    It's for tanks that want to min-max.

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    Rift Disciple spweasel's Avatar
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    It's great for soloing, too. You usually don't really need as nearly as much survivability as a heavy RS build provides, and switching on CD and Stalker Phase helps to make up for RS's lack of DPS.

    I still wouldn't try soloing in a full tank build, but 41 RS is actually quite solid.

  4. #4
    General of Telara Asaomar's Avatar
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    I think the only fight I really use it a LOT on is kaliban in GA. whenever he gets stunned on a charge, i swap into stalker phase / constant deviation to help give a bit of extra dps before swapping back to guardian phase and tanking again.
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    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    I do experts with it on all the time...

    not so much for the extra damage done, but more so that I take some damage to keep my pocket healer awake.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    constant deviation is why the nb/rs 40/36 build was created.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    I use it frequently while tanking progression. It's quite a headache to micro-manage it, though, so I usually don't bother on farm unless I'm feeling particularly motivated.
    Last edited by Muspel; 08-23-2013 at 08:16 PM.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Yeah it's kinda like when I tanked as a Berserker in EQ2 during RoK and TSO. You would "stance dance" and even switch from sword and board to duel wield if you wanted to get real complicated. There though it wasn't just a matter of min/maxing dps...no mob to tank atm as OT get the dps up etc...it was a matter of aggro management.

    That is actually why I became disinterested in tanking in rift tbh. The difficulty in tanking here is largely around just staying alive and adherence to script mechanics. In EQ2 dps was a LARGE part of your aggro for many fighters. Here maintaining aggro is the least of one's problems.
    Last edited by Galibier; 08-24-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Yeah it's kinda like when I tanked as a Berserker in EQ2 during RoK and TSO. You would "stance dance" and even switch from sword and board to duel wield if you wanted to get real complicated. There though it wasn't just a matter of min/maxing dps...no mob to tank atm as OT get the dps up etc...it was a matter of aggro management.

    That is actually why I became disinterested in tanking in rift tbh. The difficulty in tanking here is largely around just staying alive and adherence to script mechanics. In EQ2 dps was a LARGE part of your aggro for many fighters. Here maintaining aggro is the least of one's problems.
    That was a specific change they made ages ago.

    Which, imo, has led to the detriment of tanks not really knowing their stuff. We have had recruits who "never had any issue with threat in the past" app to us and proceed to lose threat when paired with any of the more veteran tanks we have. Both AoE and ST.

    It happens more frequently with warrior tanks pulling significantly more dps than the other tanks, but still. The people we've had tanking since the GSB/RoS days haven't really had issues with it.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  10. #10
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Oh tank vs tank it is an issue. I am talking about keeping the aggro off the rest of the raid. If you were not "working it" dps wise as a Zerker then a good Sin, Ranger or Wizard could basically rip a named off you almost at will.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  11. #11
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Oh tank vs tank it is an issue. I am talking about keeping the aggro off the rest of the raid. If you were not "working it" dps wise as a Zerker then a good Sin, Ranger or Wizard could basically rip a named off you almost at will.
    Once upon a time, that was the case for Rift too.

    Then the devs decided making tanks work for threat is not something they want in the game, and massive threat buffs / simplification of tank threatgen came into being.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  12. #12
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    I know...kinda sad. Aggro management should be everyone's job. I think they did it because they hoped it would increase the number of people queuing as tanks. Aggro management however has little to do with why many people prefer dps.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Aggro management should be everyone's job.
    I disagree. Aggro management is too binary to provide interesting gameplay-- there's absolutely no difference between having 10% more threat than you need and 400%. Compare that to survivability, DPS, or healing, where there's a pretty significant amount of granularity.

    Not to mention the fact that threat is pretty much completely hidden from the player, meaning that there would be no way to even know if you're about to pull. And that threat is also a function of gear, which means that you'd have massive issues when DPS were more geared than the tank (since, presumably, threat would be tuned so that tanks would be slightly ahead of DPS at the same gear level, to avoid trivialization).

    Also, threat isn't something that DPS can manage. You're either attacking normally, or you have to stop attacking. The feeling that you have to constantly stop playing for a few seconds because the tank can't do enough threat is monumentally aggravating.

    So, no. Threat should never matter to any significant degree in Rift. It's opaque, boring, unrewarding, and frustrating when it does.
    Last edited by Muspel; 08-29-2013 at 06:37 AM.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Also, threat isn't something that DPS can manage. You're either attacking normally, or you have to stop attacking. The feeling that you have to constantly stop playing for a few seconds because the tank can't do enough threat is monumentally aggravating.
    This is exactly the same reason I think the current energy management mechanics (other than Nightblade for example) are boring and pointless.

  15. #15
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I disagree. Aggro management is too binary to provide interesting gameplay-- there's absolutely no difference between having 10% more threat than you need and 400%. Compare that to survivability, DPS, or healing, where there's a pretty significant amount of granularity.

    Not to mention the fact that threat is pretty much completely hidden from the player, meaning that there would be no way to even know if you're about to pull. And that threat is also a function of gear, which means that you'd have massive issues when DPS were more geared than the tank (since, presumably, threat would be tuned so that tanks would be slightly ahead of DPS at the same gear level, to avoid trivialization).

    Also, threat isn't something that DPS can manage. You're either attacking normally, or you have to stop attacking. The feeling that you have to constantly stop playing for a few seconds because the tank can't do enough threat is monumentally aggravating.

    So, no. Threat should never matter to any significant degree in Rift. It's opaque, boring, unrewarding, and frustrating when it does.
    There were gear options in the past that lowered your threat. Procs 'n whatnot. Pretty sure there were talents built into the souls to lower threat, either as part of an active ability or as a passive. Most of those have been removed in one soul revamp or another, but you can still see some of the remnants of them from the days of yore. Stalker Phase, for example, comes with threat reduction.

    And threat management had never actually been an issue, regardless of how over geared the dps is compared to the tank. The finer nuances of threat management's been moot for a very long time, and I doubt folks have bothered spending the time to theory craft or understand that stuff.

    You give me an expert dungeon geared rogue tank and pit me against your full relic everything, all the raid support you can possibly want dps pulling 30k+ ST, and I'll still be able to hold it over as long a period of time as you would like to test it out on.

    Their move to eliminate threat generation issues for tanks is pretty much to encourage more people to dabble in it and help alleviate the chronic issue of not having enough tanks for dungeon queues.

    It was an aspect of the game they choose to remove entirely in the earlier days of this game that contributed to the general simplification of the entire game as a whole. And they're still doing this, chipping away at anything that isn't a homogenized game experience one bit at a time. Biggest current example I can point to is their plans for introducing souls that basically lets any class do any role in 3.0.

    Which, imo, only serves to diminish the appeal of the game for me.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

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