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Thread: Why?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander Seshat69's Avatar
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    Default Why?

    Why isn't melee "allowed" to melee? Is it because they can't hit something and pay attention to what's going on around them so they don't die and fail or what?

    I come from years of raiding. All I know is researching mechanics of a fight so I know what's going on in them. I know if the boss is gonna puke on me, that I need to move to the side or whever, so I don't get puked on and can still hit him while doing it all. I thought most people knew "don't stand in the fire".

    So why do I keep reading and hearing that in most raids, you have the tank meleeing and everyone else is pretty much ranged? I play a rogue to melee, not stand in the back and pew pew
    Last edited by Seshat69; 08-16-2013 at 12:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshat69 View Post
    So why do I keep reading and hearing that in most raids, you have the tank meleeing and everyone else is pretty much ranged?
    Probably because most people don't understand the concept of "don't stand in the bad stuff'".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    Probably because most people don't understand the concept of "don't stand in the bad stuff'".
    I've been in raids with someone new, who didn't know a fight, and stood in "the bad stuff". Once they did, they learned not to..or they didn't get invited back. It's not rocket science. If your health is suddenly dropping, something isnt right. If you're suddenly dead, it's time to start paying attention to what is going on around you while you're slaying something. So understanding the whole "don't stand in the bad stuff", is pretty easy to understand fairly quick...and with the amount of people playing and doing raids.. I'd hope there was lots and lots of raid awareness going on.

    Still has me wondering why melee classes are going ranged...

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    Plane Touched
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    I was reading this thread on the wow forums over 5 years ago.

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    Telaran
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    People are going ranged because it's easier and most people are bad.

    The only fight in T1 I wouldn't want to melee at all is Jultharin, and I imagine if you were willing to pay very close attention to your distance to the wisps, you could do it anyway.

    Kaliban and Kyzan in T2 discourage you from running a lot of melee, at least. Nothing wrong with having one or two though.

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    Plane Touched soulseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astelle View Post
    I was reading this thread on the wow forums over 5 years ago.
    WoW 5 years ago was nothing compared to what it was with the first raid tier in MoP. All but 1 of the bosses felt like a melee punisher to me. As in 10-30 sec disconnects on every fight. I don't mind having to move, but complete disconnects for more than 10 seconds at a time on every fight? From what I hear tho, Rift is better about this. Haven't been able to raid on Rift yet, but we'll see.

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    Shadowlander Seshat69's Avatar
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    So, in some circumstances..(this is what I am getting so far)

    People aren't very good at staying out of/away from dmg.

    Some fights are not melee friendly (although I'd think awarness of surroundings and good healers for unavoidable dmg would help with that) (Un-avoidable dmg, not the "hero" who has to get the last shot in before he moves etc..cuz when I healed if you stayed stupid, you died stupid hehe).

    I also wondered if it's just lazy and impatient people raiding too. Cuz that's all that's around now. No fun in learning the fights or spending hours raiding. They want their "stuff" and that's that. Not sure what they do after.. I play mmos cuz I like challenges, and cuz I like killing stuff with people. Nothing better than hearing people all happy on vent cuz that boss went down. It means you worked as a group mechanic and won.. and if not, you go back and learn it til you do.

    So, not sure if the answer I am looking for exists..all I know is, I can learn any fight mechanics..and I want to at least MOSTLY melee on my rogue.

    Rogues rock!

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Really there are few if any fights that you can not use melee in. In fact most of the time melee will give you a greater reward (higher dps) if played properly.

    The problem is Ranged dps is usually easier with less chance of screwing up your raid and its dps is "good enough".
    Combine that with your raid members not willing to keep waiting on others to figure out how to melee each boss properly and you end up with a lot people forced to settle on a range spec.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilidh View Post
    People are going ranged because it's easier and most people are bad.

    The only fight in T1 I wouldn't want to melee at all is Jultharin, and I imagine if you were willing to pay very close attention to your distance to the wisps, you could do it anyway.

    Kaliban and Kyzan in T2 discourage you from running a lot of melee, at least. Nothing wrong with having one or two though.
    Or just Run NB or RB that has ranged attacks on Jultharin
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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladehawk View Post
    Really there are few if any fights that you can not use melee in. In fact most of the time melee will give you a greater reward (higher dps) if played properly.

    The problem is Ranged dps is usually easier with less chance of screwing up your raid and its dps is "good enough".
    Combine that with your raid members not willing to keep waiting on others to figure out how to melee each boss properly and you end up with a lot people forced to settle on a range spec.

    This...

    Also there will be people who just do not like the melee classes that work in this game. Example rogue. LOTS of people like Sin BUT the lack of AoE and positional issues make it WAY less than optimal on more than a couple fights. SO you will have people who think Sin is the "only real rogue melee spec" say melee sucks. Not because NB and BD suck BUT because they can't always run Sin.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Shadowlander Seshat69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Or just Run NB or RB that has ranged attacks on Jultharin
    Yeah, I really enjoy NB/Sin.. and was thinking just that.

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    Can't seem to add more to the last post.. but the thought crosses my mind, that someone who plays a 'sin well, should be able to play one. I really don't know why everyone thinks that every class should be able to "do it all". I mean really, mmos started and the only real aoe class were mages..and you always brought one to raids for trash aoe..now if everyone could do it all, then you could bring any class to anything..and what fun would that be? We'd all be the same, with just different class names.

  13. #13
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    So why do I keep reading and hearing that in most raids, you have the tank meleeing and everyone else is pretty much ranged?
    It's a consequence of the holy trinity system, and why I don't like it.

    To wit: Anything that is dangerous enough to actually threaten a tank will turn any non-tank into finger paint. The only way to avoid that is to not be anywhere near it.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshat69 View Post
    now if everyone could do it all, then you could bring any class to anything..and what fun would that be? We'd all be the same, with just different class names.
    Funny, because one of the primary reasons I play RIFT instead of some other game is because I can, in fact, do it all (or at least, a lot of it... no healing for a long time to come still). I greatly prefer being able to fill in whatever role my raid requires without having to gear up an entirely new character.

    If you don't want to take full advantage of RIFT's unique flexibility in the soul/role system they provide, I really think this is the wrong game to be playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    It's a consequence of the holy trinity system, and why I don't like it.

    To wit: Anything that is dangerous enough to actually threaten a tank will turn any non-tank into finger paint. The only way to avoid that is to not be anywhere near it.
    Large cone-shaped AOEs, among other things, would like to disagree with you.
    Last edited by Eilidh; 08-16-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander Seshat69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    It's a consequence of the holy trinity system, and why I don't like it.

    To wit: Anything that is dangerous enough to actually threaten a tank will turn any non-tank into finger paint. The only way to avoid that is to not be anywhere near it.

    Whatever happened to trusting your tank and dps taking responsibility for their own dps/aggro? Trusting your healer/s?

    If you have a good tank and the person knows what they're doing.. and dps goes, wow i am starting to strip aggro off our tank, I need to pull back a minute so I don't grab aggro and die, have my healer die from all the extra healing on me during this, have my healer run out of mana, have my tank get the aggro back, possibly have the boss go nuts and attack whoever....etc etc etc. I don't see how anything that is dangerous enough to actually threaten a tank, would be of any worry?

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