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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Some stuff coming up on PTS

  1. #316
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    I am getting little over 23k on necrotic bolt spam. Maybe you dropped primer amplification?

    And you should use emp ray which is free dps vs torrent primer and curative blast, but I run energy alteration variation of Tactman.

    Also necrotic bolt spam even under 30% isnt the highest ranged dps in game, the new inquisitor is close to 24k from 100% to 0%. A perfectly min-maxed pyro can do well over 23k. Warlock from 50% to 0% is also around 24k.

  2. #317
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I used Torrent Primer since I don't want to waste time casting 1.5 second finishers with 1 combo point. And yes it was in t2 testing gear.
    You should try using Empyrean Ray instead, it's always parsed higher for me, assuming you don't need to move. You're basically trading an extra .5 seconds of cast time for an average of (11139 + (11139 * .4546 * .588)) = 14116.5 damage. Definitely worthwhile.

    EDIT: Hang on, I still had on whetstones from raid testing last night. The actual trade-off is .5 seconds for (10765 + (10765 * .4546 * .588)) = 13642 damage. Still worth it, though.

    Were you using Power Core?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    Also necrotic bolt spam even under 30% isnt the highest ranged dps in game, the new inquisitor is close to 24k from 100% to 0%. A perfectly min-maxed pyro can do well over 23k. Warlock from 50% to 0% is also around 24k.
    I hadn't taken the new inquisitor buffs into account, to be honest. Okay, so, not quite the highest ranged ST DPS, but close to it. (And it's worth noting that Tactician doesn't the same issues with mobile DPS that Inquisitor does.) Anyways, the point I was trying to make was that contrary to Solates' claims, Necrotic Bolt is absolutely worth using.
    Last edited by Muspel; 07-30-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  3. #318
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    Empyrean Bolt looks like 200-250 dps increase on Necrotic Bolt spam if it's just single target. I'm used to using Torrent Primer since it's better when there is more than 1 target and in short fights like expert dungeons I transition to <30% health targets with full combo points so any extended <30% phase doesn't come up that much. I got 22.4k with a second parse, bit better rng in it which is half of the difference.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Tactician is the best spec for every encounter where AoE DPS is meaningfully important (aside from Kain, for obvious reasons).
    Interesting....don't actually address the issue at hand, you insane exaggeration, rather change tact. I believe this is called avoidance.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  5. #320
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Interesting....don't actually address the issue at hand, you insane exaggeration, rather change tact.
    I think you're missing a few words from that sentence, because I have no idea what the last part is supposed to mean.
    Last edited by Muspel; 07-30-2013 at 10:44 AM.

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I think you're missing a few words from that sentence, because I have no idea what the last part is supposed to mean.
    I am wondering why your going through all of this...I never said anything about necrotic bolt. Necrotic bolt is fine. You were trying to go on about us having main attacks that proc munitions and poisons...EVERYONE who specs them can use munitions and poisons on all their attacks that let them...how was that supposed to be a deflect?

    No one has said anything about us not being able to utilize poisons and munitions, we just can't use them on torrents or cores.

    And I think that if they go through with the nerf, then they should enable procs on torrents.

    The next up will be assassin I am sure, wouldn't want us to be competitive with other melee now would we. OMG we would then have to move to MM so we can be 5% lower than other range specs so we wouldn't have a top niche.

    Such a good job your doing. Making sure that rogue is a lackluster noncompetive class.

    Good job.

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I think you're missing a few words from that sentence, because I have no idea what the last part is supposed to mean.
    In the post you responded to I was addressing one fact and one fact only...your gross exaggeration and global statement that "beyond 10 second" fight Tactician is the best AoE dps. That is all. Any reasonable person knows that under ideal circumstances it takes about a minute, less than ideal 90 to 120 second because Tactician with the energy change a few patches ago has limited, at best, burst damage.

    As a matter of fact in other threads you yourself have said that the spin up of tacman in particular causes issues. Now suddenly it only takes 10 seconds to rock the world? One of two conclusions come to mind there....exaggeration or out right disingenuous speech. Regardless... you said 10 seconds and I called BS, along with just about everyone else that understands how some of the other callings work.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  8. #323
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    Do the devs ever reply to these threads, or just make a one post and end of story?

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneColdO View Post
    Do the devs ever reply to these threads, or just make a one post and end of story?
    Rest assured, with the signal to noise ratio in this thread, Ailion is wandering the halls of Trion in a daze bleeding from his eyes and ears at this very moment.

  10. #325
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneColdO View Post
    Do the devs ever reply to these threads, or just make a one post and end of story?
    Back in the day Ailion was much more talkative. The problem was while people like Gery and other will have numbers and constructive feed back...many others will just curse, scream and otherwise be literally abusive. Unlike Atrius, Ailion has no twisted need to be loved players. He does his job and then moves on like a well balanced person. So no need to step in and make statements that would otherwise just invite abuse.

    I hope that he is reading however. Gery and a bunch of the others are usually spot on with analysis and I think that there is enough evidence in this thread from the statements of certain acknowledged testers that a fresh set of unbiased eyes is sorely needed.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  11.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #326
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    More updates coming up. Post on the front page edited.

  12. #327
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    In the post you responded to I was addressing one fact and one fact only...your gross exaggeration and global statement that "beyond 10 second" fight Tactician is the best AoE dps. That is all. Any reasonable person knows that under ideal circumstances it takes about a minute, less than ideal 90 to 120 second because Tactician with the energy change a few patches ago has limited, at best, burst damage.

    As a matter of fact in other threads you yourself have said that the spin up of tacman in particular causes issues. Now suddenly it only takes 10 seconds to rock the world? One of two conclusions come to mind there....exaggeration or out right disingenuous speech. Regardless... you said 10 seconds and I called BS, along with just about everyone else that understands how some of the other callings work.
    Oh, I see what you're saying. When I said "beyond 10 seconds", I meant out of the fights this tier-- because they generally fall into one of two categories: those that have extremely short periods of AoE (IE Crucia or normal mode Gelidra), or those that require extended AoE (hardmode Gelidra and Matriarch).

    Quote Originally Posted by Solates View Post
    I am wondering why your going through all of this...I never said anything about necrotic bolt. Necrotic bolt is fine.
    You mentioned bolts in this post, saying that they suck, after I mentioned that they were a key part of the rotation. Necrotic Bolt is a bolt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solates View Post
    You were trying to go on about us having main attacks that proc munitions and poisons...EVERYONE who specs them can use munitions and poisons on all their attacks that let them. how was that supposed to be a deflect? No one has said anything about us not being able to utilize poisons and munitions, we just can't use them on torrents or cores.
    Did you read the post I was responding to? Somebody was complaining that with the Tactician nerf, he'd be forced to use Sab, saying that Sab was a pain because it had attacks that didn't proc poisons and others that didn't generate combo points. I was responding with a sarcastic post, pointing out that Tactician also had plenty of rotational abilities that don't generate combo points. I also noted that Torrents do not proc poisons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solates View Post
    And I think that if they go through with the nerf, then they should enable procs on torrents.
    Which, like I said earlier, would be horrendously overpowered and would require torrents to be nerfed even further.

    Let me put it this way: if there were a torrent that did 1 damage per tick and could proc poisons, it would probably STILL be worth putting together an Assassin/Tactician hybrid for the amount of ST DPS it would be able to do. Having 2-3 chances to proc a poison every second is insane, and that's what torrents would offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solates View Post
    The next up will be assassin I am sure, wouldn't want us to be competitive with other melee now would we. OMG we would then have to move to MM so we can be 5% lower than other range specs so we wouldn't have a top niche.
    You clearly have no understanding of anything I've said at any point in this thread. Tactician is being nerfed because it's ahead, and I support this because I want the game to be balanced. Assassin is being buffed because it's behind-- and again, I support this because I want the game to be balanced.
    Last edited by Muspel; 07-30-2013 at 01:41 PM.

  13. #328
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    Torrent Primer: Now lasts 60s, up from 30s.
    Kind of baffling change because it still needs to be used just as often since it's the only finisher we can use with tactician after the torrent energy costs were changed. I could see the point if the other tactician finishers were changed to also reduce torrent overload stacks. That would make it more interesting to play too, we could squeeze in 2 necrotic rays or empyrean rays between torrent primers. If this is the plan then I can see the point in nerfing torrents to make room for some finisher damage.

    Heartseeker: Now increases the damage of Assassin attacks by 5-25%, up from 4-20%.
    About 500 dps increase.

    TíScainís Bladedancer Crystal: The effect from the 4 piece bonus now lasts 24s, up from 21s.
    Good fix.

    Collateral Damage: Now increases the damage of single target ranged weapon attacks by 2-6%, up from 1-3%.
    About 250 dps increase.


    Overall I'm thinking right direction but we are still kind of lagging behind in single target dps especially considering how rarely assassin is practical in raids.

  14. #329
    RIFT Guide Writer Nynja's Avatar
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    3% for MM must be a joke...still far behind every other calling...

    torrent primer changes..also a joke like gery said..rest is fine for me

    Specs that lag competitivity MM, ranger, tactiian soul for itself...
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  15. #330
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Maybe the Torrent Primer change is a precursor to some Empyrean Bolt/Restorative Engine buffs or something? I don't know, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense on its own.

    Hmm... I just had an idea for a way to rework Tactician into something that would actually justify the support flag. Need to go brainstorm some more.

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