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Thread: Question regarding Pve melee rogue builds for end game content

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Question regarding Pve melee rogue builds for end game content

    So, currently im leveling with Muspels awesome bladedancer build (thank you muspel for all the work you've done on your guides and your contribution to the forums) But im looking toward the endgame, mostly end game dungeons and hard-mode dungeons (with maybe the odd raid) and im wondering what melee rogue builds work for them. 61 Assassin? 61 bladedancer? the Nb-sin build i've seen?

    would love some input about this and how rogues do in these instances.
    thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    61 Bladedancer works the best in dungeons out of the melee builds. Assassin lacks AoE, NB/Sin has terrible target switching, and both of them are really energy starved.

    The problem with Bladedancer is that if you're good at it, most tanks won't be able to hold aggro off of your AoE. I had to stop using it after I died a dozen times in the middle of Hundred Blades.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    hehe, i'll take that risk. How does the 61 bladedancer build look compared to the solobuild you posted?

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    It plays almost the same. You get Fated Blades (and the new dance rotation is BaSP->Dualism->FB->DC), Double Strike (replaces Dauntless Strike as your finisher, although you should still use Dauntless once a minute for the debuff), and Binary Strike (replaces Keen Strike as your mainhand builder).

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    No. Just no.

    BD is awful in experts for the following reasons:
    1) ZERO RANGED. SL is NOT melee friendly as a rule of thumb until raiding, and even then with ranger as powerful as it is now if there are ANY disconnects at all ranger likely pulls ahead. As such, you have to assume there will be disconnects in damn near every expert boss fight (if it's even worth meleeing at all) with a select few and far between exceptions and Nb/sin will pull WAY ahead as it can at least pew pew for 10k dps at range.

    2) BD's AoE plays second fiddle to Tact more often than not as tact is not CD based. Tact also tends to survive better. If you're deadset on melee AoE then I guess this is your best bet, but you're going to die all the damned time.

    3) No real CD aside from side-step. Complete garbage when compared to twilight transcendence from the Nightblade tree that you get with Nb/Sin. (It reduces damage taken, heals you, AND cleanses you).

    4) TERRIBLE problems with offhand lag if something is moving and if it does actually get out of range for a long enough period of time your offhand attacks deactivate.

    Granted all of the above can be mitigated to an extent with a good tank that doesn't do jerky movements with the mobs/player not needing CD's because the healer/player isn't a window licker, you time your AoE with your rhythmics perfectly and make the most of the CD's.

    Now we return to reality where the above are not going to happen. Don't waste your groups' time.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    ...

    1) ZERO RANGED. SL is NOT melee friendly as a rule of thumb until raiding, and even then with ranger as powerful as it is now if there are ANY disconnects at all ranger likely pulls ahead. As such, you have to assume there will be disconnects in damn near every expert boss fight (if it's even worth meleeing at all) with a select few and far between exceptions and Nb/sin will pull WAY ahead as it can at least pew pew for 10k dps at range.

    ...
    "Disconnect" ... I've noticed this word is used a lot by many when they talk about souls and skills.
    What does it mean?

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by symke View Post
    "Disconnect" ... I've noticed this word is used a lot by many when they talk about souls and skills.
    What does it mean?
    when u are out of melee range
    Last edited by Warlyx; 06-18-2013 at 04:12 AM.

  8. #8
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    No. Just no.

    BD is awful in experts for the following reasons:
    1) ZERO RANGED. SL is NOT melee friendly as a rule of thumb until raiding, and even then with ranger as powerful as it is now if there are ANY disconnects at all ranger likely pulls ahead. As such, you have to assume there will be disconnects in damn near every expert boss fight (if it's even worth meleeing at all) with a select few and far between exceptions and Nb/sin will pull WAY ahead as it can at least pew pew for 10k dps at range.

    2) BD's AoE plays second fiddle to Tact more often than not as tact is not CD based. Tact also tends to survive better. If you're deadset on melee AoE then I guess this is your best bet, but you're going to die all the damned time.

    3) No real CD aside from side-step. Complete garbage when compared to twilight transcendence from the Nightblade tree that you get with Nb/Sin. (It reduces damage taken, heals you, AND cleanses you).

    4) TERRIBLE problems with offhand lag if something is moving and if it does actually get out of range for a long enough period of time your offhand attacks deactivate.

    Granted all of the above can be mitigated to an extent with a good tank that doesn't do jerky movements with the mobs/player not needing CD's because the healer/player isn't a window licker, you time your AoE with your rhythmics perfectly and make the most of the CD's.

    Now we return to reality where the above are not going to happen. Don't waste your groups' time.
    Bladedancer is more than fine in experts, albeit it requires a little more concentration and practice than most DPS builds. I use it all the time in 5 mans and there are only 3 bosses in all of SL that I'll switch out to my ranged spec (and even then it's just because I'm playing it safe). And you're grossly exaggerating the whole melee unfriendly thing.

    Which encounters, specifically, are you referring to here?
    Last edited by Kedon; 06-18-2013 at 04:27 AM.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    No. Just no.

    BD is awful in experts for the following reasons:
    1) ZERO RANGED. SL is NOT melee friendly as a rule of thumb until raiding, and even then with ranger as powerful as it is now if there are ANY disconnects at all ranger likely pulls ahead. As such, you have to assume there will be disconnects in damn near every expert boss fight (if it's even worth meleeing at all) with a select few and far between exceptions and Nb/sin will pull WAY ahead as it can at least pew pew for 10k dps at range.
    Ranger is severely energy starved and has much weaker AoE. And there are very few bosses where you have to stay at range for more than a few seconds, and Blade Hustle and Hundred Blades will allow you patch through those times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    2) BD's AoE plays second fiddle to Tact more often than not as tact is not CD based. Tact also tends to survive better. If you're deadset on melee AoE then I guess this is your best bet, but you're going to die all the damned time.
    Trash packs do not live long enough for Bladedancer to use up all of its AoE cooldowns. The real issue with Bladedancer is that, as I noted earlier, it does just as much AoE damage as Tactician over short periods of time, but when it pulls aggro, it dies instantly because you're in melee rather than at range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    3) No real CD aside from side-step. Complete garbage when compared to twilight transcendence from the Nightblade tree that you get with Nb/Sin. (It reduces damage taken, heals you, AND cleanses you).
    You don't need any defensive cooldowns at all. Cleanse Soul and some healing potions will keep you alive just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    4) TERRIBLE problems with offhand lag if something is moving and if it does actually get out of range for a long enough period of time your offhand attacks deactivate.
    This is relatively rare, given the paucity of disconnects on most encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    Granted all of the above can be mitigated to an extent with a good tank that doesn't do jerky movements with the mobs/player not needing CD's because the healer/player isn't a window licker, you time your AoE with your rhythmics perfectly and make the most of the CD's.

    Now we return to reality where the above are not going to happen. Don't waste your groups' time.
    It sounds to me like you're not properly anticipating tank movement.

    Quick tip: pretty much every player tends to have patterns. Even bad tanks will often move in the same directions when they're available to them. Watch what they do, and odds are that they'll do something similar every time.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlyx View Post
    when u are out of melee range
    Thanks. Now, at least, I know that the thing that has been bothering me so much has a name.

  11. #11
    Rift Master Ymirson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggz View Post
    No. Just no.

    BD is awful in experts for the following reasons:
    1) ZERO RANGED. SL is NOT melee friendly as a rule of thumb until raiding, and even then with ranger as powerful as it is now if there are ANY disconnects at all ranger likely pulls ahead. As such, you have to assume there will be disconnects in damn near every expert boss fight (if it's even worth meleeing at all) with a select few and far between exceptions and Nb/sin will pull WAY ahead as it can at least pew pew for 10k dps at range.

    2) BD's AoE plays second fiddle to Tact more often than not as tact is not CD based. Tact also tends to survive better. If you're deadset on melee AoE then I guess this is your best bet, but you're going to die all the damned time.

    3) No real CD aside from side-step. Complete garbage when compared to twilight transcendence from the Nightblade tree that you get with Nb/Sin. (It reduces damage taken, heals you, AND cleanses you).

    4) TERRIBLE problems with offhand lag if something is moving and if it does actually get out of range for a long enough period of time your offhand attacks deactivate.

    Granted all of the above can be mitigated to an extent with a good tank that doesn't do jerky movements with the mobs/player not needing CD's because the healer/player isn't a window licker, you time your AoE with your rhythmics perfectly and make the most of the CD's.

    Now we return to reality where the above are not going to happen. Don't waste your groups' time.
    You need to practice your BD skills it seems.
    A witty saying proves nothing
    - Voltaire
    One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork.
    - Edward Abbey

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