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Thread: Cloak and Dagger: "From stealth"???

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    Soulwalker
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    Default Cloak and Dagger: "From stealth"???

    Okay, I've tried my best to search for answers but I just couldn't find them. So sorry if these are pretty obvious questions.

    What on earth does "From stealth" attacks mean? When Can I get the bonus damage from Cloak and Dagger?

    And why is it whenever I go into stealth all my current hotbar keys disappear? I found a thread about main hotbar and something but couldn't find any site which explained which hotbars are which.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    From Stealth attacks are attacks that can only be used while stealthed. Jagged Strike and Assassinate are good examples of this.

    Your main actionbar has a normal version and a stealthed version. You can put abilities on the stealthed version in the same way you'd put them on any other actionbar. They're separate because there are some abilities you don't need on your main actionbar, like Incapacitate.
    Last edited by Muspel; 06-16-2013 at 07:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    From Stealth attacks are attacks that can only be used while stealthed. Jagged Strike and Assassinate are good examples of this.

    Your main actionbar has a normal version and a stealthed version. You can put abilities on the stealthed version in the same way you'd put them on any other actionbar. They're separate because there are some abilities you don't need on your main actionbar, like Incapacitate.
    Thanks Muspel! I've been searching high and low on what's up with the hotbar during stealth, but only you've told me exactly why its like that!

    It's odd though - I don't see the 10 second buff even though I use Assassinate. How can I be sure that I'm enjoying the benefits of Cloak and Dagger seeing as how there's no indication that I'm under its effect? Even Deadly Dance has an actual Buff, and it only lasts one hit!

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    Oddly, I can't seem to edit my last post. Oh well...

    I just wanted to say that I'm almost certain Cloak and Dagger is completely bugged and doesn't proc at all seeing as how my damage and damage taken doesn't seem to be any different. Zero indication that its in effect doesn't help either.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    Oddly, I can't seem to edit my last post. Oh well...
    You can only edit your posts for five minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    I just wanted to say that I'm almost certain Cloak and Dagger is completely bugged and doesn't proc at all seeing as how my damage and damage taken doesn't seem to be any different. Zero indication that its in effect doesn't help either.
    I just tested it, and it's working fine for me. Is it possible that you put points into it but forgot to save your changes when you exited your talent tree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    You can only edit your posts for five minutes.


    I just tested it, and it's working fine for me. Is it possible that you put points into it but forgot to save your changes when you exited your talent tree?
    No, its definitely still there. How do you know it's working fine for you? Is there some sort of buff that indicates it's up?

    Edit: Just tested it again myself. No buff. Damage looks vaguely the same, but I could be wrong there.

    Edit2: If I may say so, I have to say a lot of these skills are worded rather strangely. I'm still trying to figure out what Planar boost does exactly.
    Last edited by MrBunnyBan; 06-16-2013 at 08:35 AM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    No, its definitely still there. How do you know it's working fine for you? Is there some sort of buff that indicates it's up?
    Yes, you get a 10-second buff. The icon looks just like the Cloak and Dagger talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    Edit: Just tested it again myself. No buff. Damage looks vaguely the same, but I could be wrong there.
    How many points do you have in Cloak and Dagger? It could be that a specific rank of it is bugged.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    Edit2: If I may say so, I have to say a lot of these skills are worded rather strangely. I'm still trying to figure out what Planar boost does exactly.
    Every time you reach 5 combo points or use a builder when you're already at 5 points, Planar Boost gives you a single stack of a buff that increases your damage by 2%. You can have a maximum of 1 stack per point in the talent.

    Under normal circumstances, it'll take five builder->finisher sequences to reach five stacks.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Yes, you get a 10-second buff. The icon looks just like the Cloak and Dagger talent.


    How many points do you have in Cloak and Dagger? It could be that a specific rank of it is bugged.


    Every time you reach 5 combo points or use a builder when you're already at 5 points, Planar Boost gives you a single stack of a buff that increases your damage by 2%. You can have a maximum of 1 stack per point in the talent.

    Under normal circumstances, it'll take five builder->finisher sequences to reach five stacks.
    Goodness! I finally start seeing it in the top left corner! So yeah, the buff is in effect. I was looking for a message in the combat log, that was my problem. Thanks so much for your help, Muspel.

    Planar boost... doesn't really seem worthwhile? Many other talents just give a flat 2% damage increase, full stop.

    Right now, I'm fiddling with a for fun build which will help me level faster. I originally followed your tanking guide for Riftstalkers, but I figure I'll enjoy my own quirky build for now until I get anywhere near dungeons.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    Goodness! I finally start seeing it in the top left corner! So yeah, the buff is in effect. I was looking for a message in the combat log, that was my problem. Thanks so much for your help, Muspel.
    No problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    Planar boost... doesn't really seem worthwhile? Many other talents just give a flat 2% damage increase, full stop.
    For pure DPS specs, it's generally not worth going into Riftstalker at all, because the Riftstalker Gift gives lower damage per point than DPS souls. For soloing specs, though, putting some points into RS is very appealing, because you can pick up some DPS talents while also grabbing the extra armor/resistances/health that every single point in Riftstalker grants.

    That being said, "active" damage boosts (by which I mean those that come from buffs, rather than being invisible passives) tend to be stronger than passive damage boosts due to the way that stacking works. If you're interested in the math, read on. Otherwise, just skip ahead to the next quote.

    In Rift, there are four stacking groups for damage and mitigation effects. Passives, buffs, debuffs, and encounter-specific mechanics. Each group is additive within itself, and multiplicative with other groups.

    So, let's say that you've put 13 points into Assassin, picking up Cloak and Dagger, Murderous Intent, and Magnify Pain.

    This means you have 23% passive damage (13% from the Assassin gift, and 10% from Murderous Intent). You have 15% buff damage from Cloak and Dagger (while it's active), and 5% debuff damage from Magnify Pain while that's active. And then let's say you're fighting a boss with an ability with a 20% encounter-specific damage buff.

    So your final damage multiplier is:

    (1 + .13 + .1) * (1 + .15) * (1 + .05) * (1 + 1.2) = 178%

    Since endgame DPS specs tend to have a minimum of 76% passive damage from Gifts, and usually have some more on top of that from other passive damage talents, buff and debuff-based damage talents tend to be stronger than they appear.

    And just to be clear, the "four stacking groups" only applies to direct damage buffs and direct mitigation buffs. For stats, everything stacks additively-- for instance, every AP multiplier in the game is additive, regardless of whether it comes from a passive or a buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    Right now, I'm fiddling with a for fun build which will help me level faster. I originally followed your tanking guide for Riftstalkers, but I figure I'll enjoy my own quirky build for now until I get anywhere near dungeons.
    Yeah, low levels are a good time to mess around with the soul system, because the enemies tend to be easy, so even if you do it "wrong", it's not going to hurt you or slow you down all that much.
    Last edited by Muspel; 06-16-2013 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    No problem.


    For pure DPS specs, it's generally not worth going into Riftstalker at all, because the Riftstalker Gift gives lower damage per point than DPS souls. For soloing specs, though, putting some points into RS is very appealing, because you can pick up some DPS talents while also grabbing the extra armor/resistances/health that every single point in Riftstalker grants.

    That being said, "active" damage boosts (by which I mean those that come from buffs, rather than being invisible passives) tend to be stronger than passive damage boosts due to the way that stacking works. If you're interested in the math, read on. Otherwise, just skip ahead to the next quote.

    In Rift, there are four stacking groups for damage and mitigation effects. Passives, buffs, debuffs, and encounter-specific mechanics. Each group is additive within itself, and multiplicative with other groups.

    So, let's say that you've put 13 points into Assassin, picking up Cloak and Dagger, Murderous Intent, and Magnify Pain.

    This means you have 23% passive damage (13% from the Assassin gift, and 10% from Murderous Intent). You have 15% buff damage from Cloak and Dagger (while it's active), and 5% debuff damage from Magnify Pain while that's active. And then let's say you're fighting a boss with an ability with a 20% encounter-specific damage buff.

    So your final damage multiplier is:

    (1 + .13 + .1) * (1 + .15) * (1 + .05) * (1 + 1.2) = 178%

    Since endgame DPS specs tend to have a minimum of 76% passive damage from Gifts, and usually have some more on top of that from other passive damage talents, buff and debuff-based damage talents tend to be stronger than they appear.

    And just to be clear, the "four stacking groups" only applies to direct damage buffs and direct mitigation buffs. For stats, everything stacks additively-- for instance, every AP multiplier in the game is additive, regardless of whether it comes from a passive or a buff.


    Yeah, low levels are a good time to mess around with the soul system, because the enemies tend to be easy, so even if you do it "wrong", it's not going to hurt you or slow you down all that much.
    That's very interesting information concerning the different stacking groups - I wish this info was gathered together in one place properly.

    Concerning builds, my impression is that the difference between the most optimal builds isn't very large? For example, going (a) Riftstalker 61/BD 6/Bard 8 instead of (b) RS 61/Ranger 8/Bard 7 means exchanging

    (a) 9% more endurance, 0.5% more damage and 3% more mitigation

    for (b) 5% more dodge, a dodge/parry punisher, 10% more healing when you're below 30% health and a 15 second +50% dodge cooldown.
    Last edited by MrBunnyBan; 06-16-2013 at 10:32 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBunnyBan View Post
    That's very interesting information concerning the different stacking groups - I wish this info was gathered together in one place properly.

    Concerning builds, my impression is that the difference between the most optimal builds isn't very large? For example, going (a) Riftstalker 61/BD 6/Bard 8 instead of (b) RS 61/Ranger 8/Bard 7 means exchanging

    (a) 9% more endurance, 0.5% more damage and 3% more mitigation

    for (b) 5% more dodge, a dodge/parry punisher, 10% more healing when you're below 30% health and a 15 second +50% dodge cooldown.
    Bah, edit limitations... I meant (a) Riftstalker 61/BD 6/Bard 8

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    The difference tends to be relatively small, yes, although that particular example is larger than you'd think because boss damage is very high relative to tank hp, so even small differences can have a significant impact.

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