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Thread: One competitive single target DPS spec and its Hybrid?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default One competitive single target DPS spec and its Hybrid?

    Thats my count - and its a melee spec that can't truly compete with warrior DPS and, at least in my guild, Shaman DPS.

    Ranged DPS is even worse.

    Just how bad does rogue single target DPS have to get before its addressed?
    Imriel - Rogue of Ten Inches Unbuffed

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    61 Assassin says hi.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    61 Assassin says hi.
    I looked at parses on Hypatia to see how accurate this statement was. Looks like on Dread Lord Goloch when the assassin is attacking from behind he can do roughly the same DPS as warriors and mages. However, I didn't see Assassin on any other parse from other bosses. On every other boss the Hybrid spec was preferred.

    The question is how the Assassin would compare when his attacks are not pumped up by a gimmick DPS increase.
    Last edited by Mediik; 05-29-2013 at 09:10 PM.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    61 Sin is very powerful on several fights, it isn't reliant on Goloch's DPS buff. Most people just don't use it because they're bad. Our best Sins regularly pull over 20k on Falconer in ToDQ for example. I'd probably say it's the best Rogue spec on every fight in ToDQ actually.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 05-29-2013 at 09:19 PM.
    Nope.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    61 Sin is very powerful on several fights, it isn't reliant on Goloch's DPS buff. Most people just don't use it because they're bad. Our best Sins regularly pull over 20k on Falconer in ToDQ for example. I'd probably say it's the best Rogue spec on every fight in ToDQ actually.
    So any fight when allowed to attack primarily from behind without target swaps Assassin is competitive.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediik View Post
    I looked at parses on Hypatia to see how accurate this statement was. Looks like on Dread Lord Goloch when the assassin is attacking from behind he can do roughly the same DPS as warriors and mages. However, I didn't see Assassin on any other parse from other bosses. On every other boss the Hybrid spec was preferred.

    The question is how the Assassin would compare when his attacks are not pumped up by a gimmick DPS increase.
    Don't ever use Goloch to compare DPS. It's skewed towards certain builds, such as Pyromancer.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Don't ever use Goloch to compare DPS. It's skewed towards certain builds, such as Pyromancer.
    Which is exactly my point. Its the only fight in the 20 mans where I see a significant number of Assassin parses. You attack primarily from behind and receive damage buffs. Therefore its skewed toward the assassin build with its damage bonuses for attacking from behind which are then amplified by the fights damage buffs.

    So, in summary, Rogue has 1 melee hybrid build that puts up decent single target numbers on lots of fights, 1 pure melee build that puts up good numbers on specific fights that play directly to its strengths, and no single target ranged builds that are remotely competitive on any fights.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediik View Post
    Which is exactly my point. Its the only fight in the 20 mans where I see a significant number of Assassin parses. You attack primarily from behind and receive damage buffs. Therefore its skewed toward the assassin build with its damage bonuses for attacking from behind which are then amplified by the fights damage buffs.
    That's not the reason why people only use Assassin on that fight.

    It's because Assassin doesn't have any AoE. And on most melee-friendly fights, you need AoE. It's not so much that Goloch plays to Assassin's strengths, it's that it doesn't target Assassin's weakness.

    Assassin is also good for 4-tank twins, but most people don't want to deal with the headache of playing melee on that fight.
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-30-2013 at 06:56 AM.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara Delmlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediik View Post
    So any fight when allowed to attack primarily from behind without target swaps Assassin is competitive.
    Pretty much, and there aren't many fights like that is there lol.
    Rehashed, reskinned content =/= Exciting new content
    Retired from Rift thanks to Square E getting their stuff together

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    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    any fight with adds our rogues pull over 20k in nb hybrid. they are also king of aoe in tactman. I don't see y you are complaining? me and another rogue battle in every fight in the 20 man for top dps

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple lilstev24's Avatar
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    Disconnects and target swapping are the dps killers for sin, being disconnects are the worst. But w/e I still chose sin over nb/sin any day of the week.

    Quit looking at parses! Try it on falconer in todq, and you'll eat your first uneducated statement.

    Not every spec is viable for every fight, that's why you have 6 slots, soon 20. Play the field.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Don't ever use Goloch to compare DPS. It's skewed towards certain builds, such as Pyromancer.
    So which boss do I look at then? I, too, use Goloch on Hypatia when looking for DPS comparisons... :/

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    Rift Disciple lilstev24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    any fight with adds our rogues pull over 20k in nb hybrid. they are also king of aoe in tactman. I don't see y you are complaining? me and another rogue battle in every fight in the 20 man for top dps
    Any fight with no adds, and minimal disconnects 61 sin blows them out of the water.

    Nb/sin has its purpose, sin has its purpose, tac has its purpose. Need to bomb one target only-61sin, need to do decent st, with versatility to kill some adds now and then- nb/sin, need lil st, but huge aoe-tac

    Too many disconnects, just go ranged unfortunately.
    Last edited by lilstev24; 05-30-2013 at 07:41 AM.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m1nus View Post
    So which boss do I look at then? I, too, use Goloch on Hypatia when looking for DPS comparisons... :/
    Honestly I don't think there really is a good fight to do comparisons of ST specs on. The last 60% on Crucia maybe, Normal Zaviel maybe, Kain P2 if the selected players only ST. None of them really fit the bill neatly.
    Nope.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    any fight with adds our rogues pull over 20k in nb hybrid. they are also king of aoe in tactman. I don't see y you are complaining? me and another rogue battle in every fight in the 20 man for top dps
    Then you are either:

    a) a lower tier guild with mediocre warriors and mages.

    or

    b) padding your numbers with AoE.

    I have seen rogues play Tactman on fights like Zaviel and pull 35k. Big deal he can pad his numbers with meaningless AoE and stroke his epeen.

    On fights where its important to burn down adds the warriors do it efficiently while still doing great single target. NB/Sin is also helpful in these situations. However, If your rogues are sporting AoE builds on those fights you are doing it wrong.
    Imriel - Rogue of Ten Inches Unbuffed

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