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Thread: Bladedancer/Bard build?

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    Rift Disciple Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Default Bladedancer/Bard build?

    I'm trying to construct a build that runs Motifs and provides healing finishers as needed but with solid Bladedancer DPS. A melee Bard, if you will.

    I'm imagining something like this: http://www.rifthead.com/stc/zMcVhxrzqRzq0uvVg0Vedh0dqcR

    But I probably need help.
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  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Lorx's Avatar
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    With the older variants of Deadly Dance it'd probably be a lot more worth it, I ran a similar build a long time ago. BD these days seems really closed off, has a good number of abilities that are specific to it's own use. I could completely understand digging 12p in BD to get the interrupt, but you'll want to be careful of allocating so many points away from bard that it will lose it's usefulness in the first place. Resonance is really important (imo) for Bard, you'll probably want to leave enough points in there to at least flesh that out.

    Mixing in more NB could be an interesting idea, since that's the non-physical melee soul, and thus may actually have more synergy with Bard, allowing you to mix&match better.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    3/5 Resonance means it's not worth it. That talent needs to be maxed out. You're also missing Orchestra, which is a massive DPS loss for the raid.

    Anyways, Bard needs to use bard finishers to refresh motifs, and Bladedancer needs to use BD finishers to proc deadly dance. They just don't make a good hybrid. If you're going to run bard, it should be 61 Bard.
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-12-2013 at 09:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Lorx's Avatar
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    Unless what he's looking for is an interesting 5man build that still supplies some support healing/buffs, but also can make the instance run faster.

    Or he's playing with some ideas for open world content, pick up groups, etc.

    Totally agree with Resonance and BD Finishers though, of course.
    Epic Gendo

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    Rift Disciple Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    I'd be up for swapping in another soul if Bladedancer wasn't working out. I just really want to maintain that melee feel. I have been using Bard finishers with my Bladedancer combo points in order to refresh motifs. I'm just not a fan of Bard's default ranged role. I like Assassin too if there's a way to sub that in over Bladedancer.

    I 5-man and PvP a ton. Ideally, I'd like it to be a build I could bring to 10-mans if need be.

    Back at launch I ran a build like this and it seemed to work better. They must have changed up some things? I'm considering myself "new" again since so much has changed. I could find no mention of a recent, similar build idea.
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  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    The problem is that every melee spec is reliant on using its own finishers, and Bard needs to use bard finishers. Bladedancer needs Deadly Dance, Assassin needs Impale/FB, and Nightblade needs Blazing Strike (to refresh Fiery Spike) and SoD.

    Unfortunately, if you want to run a melee support build, rogue is not the class for you. Mages can do it with harbchon, clerics have druid, and warriors have beastmaster.
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-13-2013 at 08:23 AM.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Lorx's Avatar
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    I wonder what kind of antics a RS/Bard could do.

    The reason why BD/Bard used to work (I did it too) was because Deadly Dance worked on Cadence. It doesn't anymore, so the mix isn't very potent anymore.

    Personally I'd think RS or NB would be the two main souls to look into if you wanted to mix around with melee builds. Dipping into BD specifically for the interrupt may be a help in 5mans, but anything beyond that in BD...maybe not so much.

    NB's Fiery Spike Muspel referred to is a builder, and thus something you'd be using anyway. Scourge of Darkness lasts 10 attacks, so you should be more than able to rotate it with Codas. Seems like a good soul to poke at more. If I was trying to build a 5man-use Bard DPS thing, I'd probably be starting with something like this?
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorx View Post
    NB's Fiery Spike Muspel referred to is a builder, and thus something you'd be using anyway. Scourge of Darkness lasts 10 attacks, so you should be more than able to rotate it with Codas. Seems like a good soul to poke at more. If I was trying to build a 5man-use Bard DPS thing, I'd probably be starting with something like this?
    You missed the entire point of what I was saying.

    Fiery Spike's duration is refreshed by 5CP Blazing Strike or Flame Thrust. If you're not using those NB finishers, then you need to maintain it manually on top of losing DPS from using bard finishers instead of NB ones. Secondly, Scourge of Darkness should be used on cooldown.

    This means that you either have to use bard finishers to keep motifs up and manage Fiery Spike manually, or use Nightblade finishers and keep motifs up manually. Either choice is a hefty DPS loss, probably doing even less than 61Bard would with Cadenza clipping.

    As for Riftstalker, there's nothing there that gives a significant DPS boost without giving up even bigger DPS boosts in bard, and all of the attacks have hefty threat modifiers. Ultimately, melee bard does less damage than ranged bard, does almost no healing, and provides worse buffs. It just doesn't work in any way whatsoever.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Lorx's Avatar
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    Couldn't you refresh Fiery Spike (all stacks) by just throwing it once before it runs out? Or do you have to refresh each stack separately?

    Also you seem to miss the entire point of what OP is asking, or what I have said in response. Will this sub-perform to any viable raid build? Duh, that's why these things aren't already done commonly. Honestly though, who cares? If he wants to make a fun build for the sake of having a build for fun, may as well help him craft something serviceable under normal conditions, instead of complaining that it won't beat out a different build, something everybody already knows and accepts.

    If you want a different way to wrap your head around the concept, consider it a challenge. Try your best to make the most viable melee bard build you can, in relation only to other melee bard builds. Call it a handicap.
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  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorx View Post
    Couldn't you refresh Fiery Spike (all stacks) by just throwing it once before it runs out? Or do you have to refresh each stack separately?
    Yes, you could. That's what I mean by refreshing it manually, but that GCD doesn't actually do any damage on its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorx View Post
    Also you seem to miss the entire point of what OP is asking, or what I have said in response. Will this sub-perform to any viable raid build? Duh, that's why these things aren't already done commonly. Honestly though, who cares? If he wants to make a fun build for the sake of having a build for fun, may as well help him craft something serviceable under normal conditions, instead of complaining that it won't beat out a different build, something everybody already knows and accepts.

    If you want a different way to wrap your head around the concept, consider it a challenge. Try your best to make the most viable melee bard build you can, in relation only to other melee bard builds. Call it a handicap.
    Read the first post again. He was asking for a build that would provide healing finishers along with solid DPS. There isn't anything that'll pull that off better than 61Bard.

    EDIT: Unless you count Tactman, but... I don't.
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-13-2013 at 06:37 PM.

  11. #11
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    I actually experimented with a bard/bd hybrid pre-SL, using Power Chord, some cadence and BD finishers. It did okay, but full bard actually did better. Ultimately, none of them were as good as deep Tactician with RS.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Lorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Yes, you could. That's what I mean by refreshing it manually, but that GCD doesn't actually do any damage on its own.


    Read the first post again. He was asking for a build that would provide healing finishers along with solid DPS. There isn't anything that'll pull that off better than 61Bard.

    EDIT: Unless you count Tactman, but... I don't.
    If you don't want to bother experimenting and having some fun with stretching possibilities, that's okay, you don't have to go on a tangent of things we already know for it.

    Though it is amusing you're arguing for OP, when he's quite plainly said what he wants.

    I just really want to maintain that melee feel. I have been using Bard finishers with my Bladedancer combo points in order to refresh motifs. I'm just not a fan of Bard's default ranged role. I like Assassin too if there's a way to sub that in over Bladedancer.
    So if you don't want to mess around with the possibilities of a melee bard and what it could do, cool, but stating five posts in a row that he should just Ranged Bard because it's better is just stating five times something we already know. It's a waste of our time, it's a waste of your time, and it flat out ruins any progress the thread could make.

    You're not being helpful. If you can't stand the possibility that somebody would want to run a build based on an idea or playstyle rather than stats, this is not a thread for you.
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    Rift Master Ymirson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorx View Post
    It's a waste of our time, it's a waste of your time, and it flat out ruins any progress the thread could make.
    Progress where to? A non functioning spec? This is doomed to be a solo spec or some plaything for groups which do not care about performance. But if you follow that route, why even bother discussing? Spec as you like and queue.
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  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorx View Post
    If you don't want to bother experimenting and having some fun with stretching possibilities, that's okay, you don't have to go on a tangent of things we already know for it.

    Though it is amusing you're arguing for OP, when he's quite plainly said what he wants.



    So if you don't want to mess around with the possibilities of a melee bard and what it could do, cool, but stating five posts in a row that he should just Ranged Bard because it's better is just stating five times something we already know. It's a waste of our time, it's a waste of your time, and it flat out ruins any progress the thread could make.

    You're not being helpful. If you can't stand the possibility that somebody would want to run a build based on an idea or playstyle rather than stats, this is not a thread for you.
    He said he wants to maintain that melee feel, and that he also wants to do solid DPS (by which he seems to mean "higher DPS than pure bard").

    Look, I get that you're fine with people using builds that are suboptimal if they're fun, but you keep assuming that's what people are looking for regardless of what they say.
    Last edited by Muspel; 05-14-2013 at 06:20 AM.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Lorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymirson View Post
    Progress where to? A non functioning spec? This is doomed to be a solo spec or some plaything for groups which do not care about performance. But if you follow that route, why even bother discussing? Spec as you like and queue.
    Discussing would be for shaking the bag and seeing what comes out. Yeah, it'll be suboptimal, but why not play around and see how it performs, maybe even learn something in the process or get some laughs out of it. It's an experiment.
    If that's not something you're interested in doing, cool, participate in a discussion you do find interesting. /shrug

    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    He said he wants to maintain that melee feel, and that he also wants to do solid DPS (by which he seems to mean "higher DPS than pure bard").

    Look, I get that you're fine with people using builds that are suboptimal if they're fun, but you keep assuming that's what people are looking for regardless of what they say.
    If you don't want to play with different ideas, that's fine, I'm not the one reading between the lines to try and understand what he means by DPS specifically in order to defend their point. Which is a point we all already know in the first place. You're coming in here and going on a rampage telling everybody the sky is blue. Cool, or something, I guess. Was it worth mentioning once, just in case somebody here is colorblind? Well yeah. Six posts later? You're beating a dead horse while somehow not grasping, even though it's been plainly stated, that everybody understands the concept already.

    I'm not going to continue arguing with you Muspel, as previously stated it's just a waste of my time. Go pick on Dun some more or something if you want somebody who's willing to respond for longer. I have no interest in arguing with you in the smoldering corpse of a destroyed thread.
    Last edited by Lorx; 05-14-2013 at 08:49 AM.
    Epic Gendo

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