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Thread: Idea for New Rogue Soul

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default Idea for New Rogue Soul

    So I'm not sure how far into development the new souls are for the classes. There was talk about every class getting a new soul and - maybe - rogues getting a healing soul with a future expansion or content update.

    I have an idea for a rogue healing soul. Most clerics don't enjoy the playstyle of purifier because it's one button. You spam your aoe shield button and use cooldowns for the most part.

    I think most clerics who enjoy purifier like tank healing. They also seem to call purifier a 'shield bot' and support soul, so I propose we change things up a bit. How about purifier changes back to something similar to what it was before. A strong tank healer with shielding and make the new rogue soul the aoe shielder.

    Here's what I'm proposing for the new rogue soul:
    - primarily melee healer, can heal at range just as effectively but does no dps
    - melee proc that applies a shield onto raid members, functions like puri with burnout on raid members. At range can cast the shield so is still effective but is missing out because melee attacks apply the shield for free.
    - for actual healing the soul will have another aoe hot, two single target hots and 1 large direct heal with a cooldown
    - some abilities and attacks cast a large shield on the tank, no burnout applied
    - the playstyle will be to stay in melee to dps to proc shields on party members, maintain the hots and then manage the shields through attacks with cooldowns. There will be no burst healing beyond 1 cooldown and instead you'll need to stay proactive. The healing can be done at range as well (for melee unfriendly fights in experts) but you won't be doing any damage. Melee attacks (with cooldowns) apply tank and raid shields so if you're doing melee dps you get the shields for free.
    - hots will work well with our other souls. Since tact is a bunch of aoe hots (and somewhat bard) a hybrid tactician - new soul can function as a raid healer. 61 point build will be for tank healing or experts.
    Last edited by Mayi; 05-05-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Looks interesting, if thats the case for the next expansion, can we expect mages to get tanking, and warriors to get a healing soul also?
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    I'm not sure. I'd think so though, the classes are slowly becoming more similar over time. Inquisitor is like MM and you can draw similarities between mages and warriors too. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, except for mage tanking gear .... too much tanking gear drops as it is.
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    If we were to get a healing soul then I would prefer it to be something that can function as a proper healer and not yet another aoe healer or shield bot. That means high single target healing capability including burst healing, aoe cleanse, battle rez and all the other bells and whistles that go along with it. Melee healer would be nice as long as disconnects only hurt your dps and not the healing. I would rather see it resemble chloromancer than purifier.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Well the issue with making the new soul a pure healer is... there's already too many pure healers. One class will be better then another class and everyone will stack that one class, similar to chloro vs cleric now.

    I agree about the bells and whistles, but what I'm suggesting would be a full healer, it would just function in a different way. With my suggestion there wouldn't be good burst ST healing, but shielding can be just as if not more effective at actual healing. Preventative healing > reactive healing, I'm sure it's a rule written somewhere in the healer bible. Think purifier pre-SL, sentinel always had better hps but people used purifiers for the shields.
    Last edited by Mayi; 05-05-2013 at 09:14 AM.
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  6. #6
    Rift Master Ymirson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    .... too much tanking gear drops as it is.
    You must be playing a different game then i do.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymirson View Post
    You must be playing a different game then i do.
    Before that patch that adjusted drop rates almost all our relics were tanking pieces.
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  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    if they give me a rogue healing soul, I'm definately going to move to wildstar when it comes out.

    no more gimmick specs! I want a new dps soul that synergizes with either sab or bladedancer.


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  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Garnatian's Avatar
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    Bowmancer. Healing Soul.

    I can see it now, firing a volley of arrows onto your allies to heal them.

    2 Stances. Rifle Stance and Bow Stance. Rifle is for Tank healing and Bow for AoE.
    Last edited by Garnatian; 05-05-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    no more gimmick specs! I want a new dps soul that synergizes with either sab or bladedancer.
    It's not possible to synergize with sab or bladedancer. Bladedancer relies on combo builders and the finisher for it's dps, souls like NB and assassin get a lot of their dps from enchantments and things like ignited weapons. BD requires 58+ points to not have bad builders at which point you might as well go to 61, dipping into assassin isn't worth it except to go for poisons and whatnot. It's something they put in for balancing, if you were able to get the strong poisons and BD strong combo builders it would be OP. Adding another soul won't change anything.
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  11. #11
    Telaran Carear's Avatar
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    Check out Dancer from Final Fantasy XI.

    Translating to Rift....
    1) Expend energy for direct heals, aoe heals, and cleanse
    2) Poison/aura that allows radiant spores (they'll have to give a mechanic to aoe this)
    3) Poison/aura that debuffs to give some sort of attack bonus, Rift doesn't use haste
    4) You only get one poison/aura
    5) Expend combo points for spiffy abilities or to change back to energy

    The reason Dancer fails as a healer in ffxi is they linked all the curing moves and the cleanse to a single timer, and it gimped healing output to the point where it's useless for groups. Dancer can solo as it can self heal, has excellent evasion, and has no pet management.

    Dancer has two stances that become available. Saber Dance removes the curing abilities and gives a gigantic bonus to Double Attack, allowing multiple hits per round. Fan Dance removes the poison/aura ability and gives a bonus to defense. You pretty much live in Saber when you can, and no stance when you can't. Fan is meh.
    Last edited by Carear; 05-05-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Plexus's Avatar
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    Just give bard a coda of cleanse-10-people, and coda of shield-10-people



    (edit: and maybe a Verse of Resurrection, but that's probably pushing it)
    Last edited by Plexus; 05-05-2013 at 04:12 PM.

  13. #13
    Telaran Carear's Avatar
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    The more I think about the Dancer comparison I made, the more it doesn't seem to fit. Dancer builds the energy it uses through landing attacks, similar to rage mechanics. Maybe a stance that gives the new soul extra combo points on attacks, and points to be used for healing only in that stance? Well, that pretty much brings us back to bard.

    I dunno.

    Honestly, just give us a tac/bard combo that can legitimately heal. Just up the healing coda and curing core and rogue would be a solid healer/buffer. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. The more I think about it, the more I think rogue doesn't need a new soul for healing. We have two that could work if tweaked.

    Rogue needs a soul that can be specced into for a good damage to make our ranged and melee perform better. We need a Burning Fury talent. The class mechanics seem to be there. We just need a multiplier to bring it all together. Just my two cents, though. And I don't raid, so please take it with a grain of salt.
    "You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams

  14. #14
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carear View Post
    The more I think about the Dancer comparison I made, the more it doesn't seem to fit. Dancer builds the energy it uses through landing attacks, similar to rage mechanics. Maybe a stance that gives the new soul extra combo points on attacks, and points to be used for healing only in that stance? Well, that pretty much brings us back to bard.

    I dunno.

    Honestly, just give us a tac/bard combo that can legitimately heal. Just up the healing coda and curing core and rogue would be a solid healer/buffer. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. The more I think about it, the more I think rogue doesn't need a new soul for healing. We have two that could work if tweaked.

    Rogue needs a soul that can be specced into for a good damage to make our ranged and melee perform better. We need a Burning Fury talent. The class mechanics seem to be there. We just need a multiplier to bring it all together. Just my two cents, though. And I don't raid, so please take it with a grain of salt.
    Rogues are not that that bad off my friend, they do not need any drastic overhaul in the dps department for pve or pvp. Your rant sounds more like exaggeration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    I would very much like to see true rogue healing as well. I think that currently the healing abilities are spread across two souls, one healing + support and the other healing + damage, which makes it difficult to get a true healing build as you end up getting lots of talents completely unrelated to healing if you go high up in either tree (just look at what you end up taking if you want to reach resto bolt in tac for example). Moving the healing talents lower in the souls (more so for tac than bard as there are more healing abilities in tact generally) and then having a new soul which could pick these items up from tac/bard without "wasting" points would then give some more options. Specifically it would be nice if the following items were all made reasonably accessible:

    - Curative core - ground target aoe heal
    - Curative remote - raid heals itself as it hits target
    - Curative blast - aoe hot finisher
    - Riff - cooldown to give 5 cp

    For a new soul I would be interested to see:

    - Three builders, one instant ST heal, one instant AoE heal and one ability which buffs the target to increase healing/shielding from you
    - A stacking self buff from using builders with 5 combo points active that increases the healing/shielding of your next finisher so that you can plan ahead for spike damage at a cost of lower healing/shielding leading up to it and have a more interesting rotation
    - Shield based finishers, one AoE, one ST

    The idea would be a decent level of ST/AoE heals from builders, HoTs from tact to help top people up with higher efficiency and shield based finishers for damage spikes, which can be buffed if you have spammed builders for a while. Riff could be pulled in from bard to give a cooldown allowing a second finisher to be applied very rapidly. If you wanted to make it clear that 61 points were what would turn the soul into a "full" healer you could put cleanse/combat res near the top of the tree.
    Last edited by Altyrann; 05-06-2013 at 08:37 AM.

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