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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: MM changes on PTS

  1. #151
    Ascendant Hodor's Avatar
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    No, it turns things into uninteresting walls of text. There is a way to speak to each other which doesn't involve 20 separate 1-liners where the original meaning isn't lost if you don't follow line by line. And, I wasn't calling you out specifically. I see it every now and then and just pass over the entire section because it's so anal and annoying. Feel free to break this paragraph into 4 separate replies.

    So I'm using a slightly diff rotation then you guys all are but it's still a loss. I guess those couple times you hit bullseye > DES it's a gain, other wise it seems like a pointless change/loss. It wouldn't be so hard for them to up DES damage so that if you stop and lose your mobility you gain some DPS.

  2. #152
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    That's how you debate something. You address each point in turn.
    But its also makes for a really irritating read. Constrictions of text based communication, I guess.

    If the forums were a conversation, no one would be going through each and every single point in detail... you would just pick the most important parts and expand upon that and let the rest drop away.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsurfing View Post
    Mr. Anal-Quote-Every-Line-And-Respond-To-Each-Individually-Because-I-Can't-Let-Anything-Go making it very annoying to follow this thread.
    Addressing every pointof an argument is how you properly debate things.
    Otherwise, you risk strawmanning the individual and may miss aspects of the argument that are important.

    I miss the days where people entered a debate because an opposing view could be enlightening.
    Now people whine when you actually address them maturely.

    If you dislike it, don't surf web forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsurfing View Post
    Is Deadeye worth using over hasted shot now, or is Deadeye still a loss?
    Its worth it.
    Alternatively you could test it.
    Last edited by Katosu; 05-06-2013 at 06:57 PM.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsurfing View Post
    No, it turns things into uninteresting walls of text. There is a way to speak to each other which doesn't involve 20 separate 1-liners where the original meaning isn't lost if you don't follow line by line. And, I wasn't calling you out specifically. I see it every now and then and just pass over the entire section because it's so anal and annoying. Feel free to break this paragraph into 4 separate replies.
    You aren't calling anyone out specifically, then you say foolishness at the end.
    I recall a time where people had this thing called tact.
    Of course with the internet, one does not have to worry about social standing.

    If you feel the original meaning is lost, then consolidate your argument and point out that the meaning was lost in the reply.
    It is not up to me on how you represent your opinion, I merely have to reply.
    Make it more concise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsurfing View Post
    So I'm using a slightly diff rotation then you guys all are but it's still a loss. I guess those couple times you hit bullseye > DES it's a gain, other wise it seems like a pointless change/loss. It wouldn't be so hard for them to up DES damage so that if you stop and lose your mobility you gain some DPS.
    I'll test it again in a bit, but I was seeing a gain with it previously.

    @moonfire: Its not a conversation so moot point. Really, its a complaint about preference.

  5. #155
    Telaran Mammothtruk's Avatar
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    its a dps gain, however it really isnt enough to bother with unless you are sure you arent going to be moving. It also isnt enough to content with... any other calling for dps. everyone comes with an interrupt and/or purge now with better dps. marks is a 5m spec right now. a bit of a yawner really.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    its a dps gain, however it really isnt enough to bother with unless you are sure you arent going to be moving. It also isnt enough to content with... any other calling for dps. everyone comes with an interrupt and/or purge now with better dps. marks is a 5m spec right now. a bit of a yawner really.
    ts about on par with other ranged specs.
    The issue is mages are a major outlier that need a nerf on their ranged specs.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    In pve no, in pvp yes. A lot of the reason why mages don't interrupt is because other classes step up to do it. Almost every raiding spec in game has an interrupt with the exception of assassin and NB-Sin, or rogue melee souls. Every raiding spec a mage, warrior or cleric would ever use (except healers) has an interrupt.
    Actually mages (and clerics in inquisitor) usually don't interrupt because unlike rogues and most melee specs, they have to interrupt their cast to do so, which can be a minor to severe dps drop. Interrupting as a marksman or shaman (or tank, who is really who should be doing it) for example is a 0% loss in dps the majority of the time.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Actually mages (and clerics in inquisitor) usually don't interrupt because unlike rogues and most melee specs, they have to interrupt their cast to do so, which can be a minor to severe dps drop. Interrupting as a marksman or shaman (or tank, who is really who should be doing it) for example is a 0% loss in dps the majority of the time.
    With the off chance that a pyro is actually casting fusillade, I'd still say that pyro won't lose damage over interrupting, unless it's a <1,5sec cast.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rounded View Post
    With the off chance that a pyro is actually casting fusillade, I'd still say that pyro won't lose damage over interrupting, unless it's a <1,5sec cast.
    Many of them are, and due to latency you can't expect that to be a solid enough case for "it's fine to just wait until your cast ends to interrupt" -- anyway my point is more that it's literally no loss for other specs.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Actually mages (and clerics in inquisitor) usually don't interrupt because unlike rogues and most melee specs, they have to interrupt their cast to do so, which can be a minor to severe dps drop. Interrupting as a marksman or shaman (or tank, who is really who should be doing it) for example is a 0% loss in dps the majority of the time.
    For MM it can be a huge dps loss if you use Dead eye and Strafe, but it does't matter that much, because overall dmg is crap anyway compared to other callings

    RBs won't loos anything by interrupting as everthing they do is instant. Well, would be one more button to press
    Chocolat Rift - Content clear
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  11. #161
    Telaran Mammothtruk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Actually mages (and clerics in inquisitor) usually don't interrupt because unlike rogues and most melee specs, they have to interrupt their cast to do so, which can be a minor to severe dps drop. Interrupting as a marksman or shaman (or tank, who is really who should be doing it) for example is a 0% loss in dps the majority of the time.
    Because cast times would have to be stopped to interrupt? funny cause that argument would have to apply to Marks too since you are using Deadeye Shot which comes with a 1.5 second cast... thanks for pointing out why that argument isnt valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    ts about on par with other ranged specs.
    The issue is mages are a major outlier that need a nerf on their ranged specs.
    With other ranged rogue specs? Mages, Clerics, Warriors... you dont run marks for comparable dps at range. You either run melee or you dont compete.

  12. #162
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    Because cast times would have to be stopped to interrupt? funny cause that argument would have to apply to Marks too since you are using Deadeye Shot which comes with a 1.5 second cast... thanks for pointing out why that argument isnt valid.
    Deadeye Shot is used with far less frequency than casts which make up the majority of the Pyro, Warlock and Inquisitor rotations. But you are correct, if using Deadeye Shot then marksman is not ideal for interrupting either. There are many specs that are.

  13. #163
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    I only have one thing to say whenever anyone in the raid whines about having to do interrupts because they'll lose dps:

    Just imagine the dps lost if it wasn't interrupted and people died from it.

    Yeah, because THAT'll do wonders for raid dps.

    ...

    well ok no, I just tell them that if they aren't going to do it, I'll find someone else who will to take their spot.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    Because cast times would have to be stopped to interrupt? funny cause that argument would have to apply to Marks too since you are using Deadeye Shot which comes with a 1.5 second cast... thanks for pointing out why that argument isnt valid.
    Pretty much here.
    Mages/Clerics have no reason not to interrupt, especially while using Harbinger which is all instants.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    With other ranged rogue specs? Mages, Clerics, Warriors... you dont run marks for comparable dps at range. You either run melee or you dont compete.
    As I said, if I remember right, Marksman is roughly on par with CLerics and Warriors.
    keep in mind its below those two simply because its much more mobile than Tempest and Inquisitor, but Ranger competes with those two well.

    Mages, as I said earlier, are major outliers.

  15. #165
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    That's how you debate something. You address each point in turn.
    In debate class in high school, yes. If you care about winning a debate outside of a classroom, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    If the forums were a conversation, no one would be going through each and every single point in detail... you would just pick the most important parts and expand upon that and let the rest drop away.
    This. Although it does allow for stupid people to pick only the parts they feel they can answer, it is the only rational way of having a debate.

    Go read Katosu's post on the last page for an example of why the quote-reply-quote-reply format is absolutely stupid when quoting a single person's post.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 05-07-2013 at 07:01 AM.

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