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Thread: For the Parsers

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default For the Parsers

    I'm a decentish rogue, Im no dartless, but I run my specs better than 99% of other rogues out there and at one time I used to top every parse on every boss I was on. Loved the game. But, now after a little patch ago I was trying to compete with our warriors, once and a while I caught all the buffs and debuffs in perfect sync with my CD's in my top spec, assasin, and I could compete but not outcompete any of our warriors. Now I know the warriors in the guild are good, real good, and some of them never missed a que for an ability, and there are others who don't do their rotation perfectly and they still beat us. But now that the mages are getting their **** together our parse looks like:

    Warrior
    warrior
    mage
    warrior
    warrior
    warrior
    mage
    warrior
    rogue
    rogue
    cleric
    cleric
    archeon
    chloro
    bard
    chloro
    tank1
    tank2
    tank3
    puri

    Is anyone else seeing this trend?

  2. #2
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Pretty much, I'm not sure what's happened to RB to put them over the top but our top warrior hit 27.8k on Gorloch this week. Their dps seems to have gone up for some mysterious reason and I seem to be down for no reason I can find.
    Last edited by Mayi; 04-24-2013 at 09:41 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

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  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    This was in hotfix 8:
    PARAGON
    * Strike Like Iron: No longer has a cooldown. Duration increased to 60 seconds, up from 20. Damage bonus increased to 8-24% from 7-21%.
    * Way of the Wind, Alacrity: Can now be affected by Preferred Ally.
    * Fleet of Foot: No longer on global cooldown.
    * Setting Moon: Buff now lasts 20 seconds, up from 15.
    * Death Touch: Now deals damage instantly. Snares and debuffs the target, reducing their strength and dexterity by 80% for 8 seconds.

    RIFTBLADE
    * Icy Burst, Fiery Burst: Energy cost increased. Damage of 3-point Finisher increased. Damage of 1 and 2-point Finisher reduced.
    * Storm Burst, Earth Burst: Damage of 3-point Finisher increased. Damage of 1 and 2-point Finisher reduced.

    RB changes were a buff even when compared to 1-point icy burst rotation which I believe was the top dps for them before. Assassin is a bit tricky to compare since armor debuff is so often missing at least for us and the spec is just very high in rng. You can easily have 800 dps variance in parses just from Malicious Poison alone.

    This week we had a rogue top the parses on HM Progenitor, HM Kain, Matriarch, Goloch, HM Gelidra, Gangnum (counting single target only) and Twins. If I don't count aoe on Kain and Matriarch then a warrior was top on those. I think in just pure single target we are good but not the best, especially after pyro was buffed to godly status. We still shine in fights that need aoe or cleave.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Well I was surprised but from what others were saying about pyro I thought they'd dominate this week but it didn't happen. Our top mage wasn't in raid though, and I'm pretty sure the other mages hadn't practiced pyro so I'll have to wait a week to see what pyro can really do.

    As for the bosses you mentioned, on HM prog it's hard to tell who's really contributing the most since there's a lot of fluff damage. Other then that our rogues are usually only top on HM Geldra, HM Kain and Twins.

    This week a warrior was top on Matriarch, Gangnum and Goloch. Since Rift Spear is a ST dps increase when you have lots of mobs and has crazy burst, they've been pulling ahead on fights where you have adds you need to burn down. On Goloch we had 3 warriors over 27k so they were top there. Even on the last phase of Crucia where I'm used to consistently being top dps I hit my usual 18.5k and a warrior was higher with 19.5k, so I was beat by 1k on the phase where most of the phase is sub-30%.
    Last edited by Mayi; 04-25-2013 at 03:24 AM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  5. #5
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    Were your warriors playing paragon on Goloch? We only had two dps warriors for that fight, both were playing RB and one of them died so I didn't get a good benchmark there. Pyro changes weren't live on EU servers yesterday so I need to wait until next week to see them in action.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Well I was surprised but from what others were saying about pyro I thought they'd dominate this week but it didn't happen. Our top mage wasn't in raid though, and I'm pretty sure the other mages hadn't practiced pyro so I'll have to wait a week to see what pyro can really do.
    I got wrecked in ToDQ by a pyro last night when I was playing Assassin (on the first boss, I tanked the second and was MM for the last two), but we were missing some raid buffs that make that an imperfect comparison. (EDIT: It's also worth noting that the fight was only like two minutes, and I don't know how bursty Pyro is. Maybe it'd have averaged out on a longer encounter.)

    The recent class changes seem to have made overall DPS balance worse, though.
    Last edited by Muspel; 04-25-2013 at 06:08 AM.

  7. #7
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    I'm just saying c'est la vie at this point on class balance. As long as we can still meet DPS checks with Rogues in the raid, I'm not gonna complain too loudly. It would be nice if they could actually balance the classes, but its been 2 years. Time to give up the ghost.

    In PvP, it will always be warriors with some spec that offers great damage and high health/mitigation. It will always be clerics healing through 5 people's damage. Since day 1 of Rift, this has been the case. I remember patches where a warrior could easily wade into 3 or 4 rogues and kill all of them. I remember patches where Clerics could type to me their life story while healing through me and another rogue's damage and never going OOM.

    In PvE, it will always be warriors and mages who are on top of DPS, or the devs are putting together a patch to send them to the top. Clerics are never going to be top. I'm sure they've given up too. Sure, we had Sabdancer for a bit, and we can sometimes get an exceptional parse that puts us 1% ahead of a warrior who botches his rotation, but the reality is that devs think PvE is about warriors and mages. They always have.

    As I'm sure Mayi remembers, here's a post I made complaining about the situation over a year ago: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...lete-raid.html

    Has anything really changed? Looking at the DPS charts now, I'd say not.

    So, c'est la vie.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 04-25-2013 at 05:42 AM.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Our warriors all play RB, I don't think most have another spec besides tanking. Maybe they have an RB spec for pvp too, I'm not sure.

    Maybe there is no point, pre-1.9 the dps rankings were mages were highest ST, warriors were good ST and great aoe in one spec, rogues were subpar ST except for one spec you could rarely use (just like 61 sin) , Sab was good ranged ST and AoE dps, clerics were super low.

    For clerics dps is a lot better then it was, healing is actually worse. There's no more senticar so healing clerics aren't as happy, chloros are moreso the alpha healer then they were in SL. Shaman was improved and is super fun, I've never seen one break 26k on Gorloch though.

    For rogues we now have an aoe melee spec (sin-nb) but it falls behind in aoe and ST compared to warriors. Our ranged aoe spec with good ST was nerfed, there were encounters where you needed aoe so our SL version of sab (tact-mm) was nerfed to hell because rogues were top dps in some encounters. I find it hilarious that something is considered OP just because there were encounters that played to it's strength, again fail nerfs... if something doesn't shine in an encounter that plays to it's strengths it's going to be useless everywhere else. If tact-mm was OP, pre-SL Sab was ridiculously OP since the ST was relatively better, the only difference was there was no encounters where it could shine. This week RB was beating our cabs and tact-mm on trash, seems out of whack.

    If that's the dev's intent though, I don't know why they bothered going through with 1.9 changes and balancing, seems like a big waste of time if everything will end up how it was before.
    Last edited by Mayi; 04-25-2013 at 07:10 AM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  9. #9
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    If that's the dev's intent though, I don't know why they bothered going through with 1.9 changes and balancing, seems like a big waste of time if everything will end up how it was before.
    It doesn't matter what their intent is; it matters what they do. What they do is constantly ensure that warriors and mages are top in PvE and warriors/clerics are top in PvP.

    Again, I can live with it. I'm a rogue, I do fine and I don't feel like I can't bring other rogues to raids. I just know what warriors and mages will always be better DPS in the long run.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 04-25-2013 at 07:23 AM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    See Dun, I think settling is ********. Long story short, if you are going to sell a game as one where callings are irrelevant to role, they are simply different styles of doing the same job, then I expect you to deliver on said promises. If you can not, or do not deliver then at least have the honesty to come forward and say "okay these callings are more about role X and these role Y", then I as an informed player can chose the appropriate calling for what I want to do.

    In the analog world, if a car company sells a car as a performance car but it does 0-60 in 10 seconds and it handles like a bloated minivan with soggy tea bags for springs, they would be lambasted and either shelve the car, fix it, or change the advertising. Are you saying we should not expect the same here?
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  11. #11
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    I don't really disagree with what you're saying, but it just seems like banging my head against a brick wall. I would rather be lackluster without a headache, than lackluster with a headache.

    I think in our gut, every rogue knew that Tact-MM would be nerfed. Not because it was too good, but because it was too good for rogues. You could just feel it.

  12. #12
    Telaran Jurugar's Avatar
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    I can only go off anecdotal evidence, but I think a good rogue will still beat a decent warrior, but on completely even footing the warrior will likely come out on top.
    <Condemned> - 4/4 ToDQ, 4/4 FT, 5/5 EE

  13. #13
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Warriors can tank/dps <-- 2 roles
    Mages can heal/dps <-- 2 roles
    clerics can tank/heal/dps <-- all 3 roles (Will never be top dps)
    rogues can tank/heal/dps <-- all 3 roles (Will never be top dps)

    I think there is a method behind this madness, jack of all trades, master of none. Working as intended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    I don't really disagree with what you're saying, but it just seems like banging my head against a brick wall. I would rather be lackluster without a headache, than lackluster with a headache.

    I think in our gut, every rogue knew that Tact-MM would be nerfed. Not because it was too good, but because it was too good for rogues. You could just feel it.
    No, it was too good. Just like Riftblade and Pyro now, but for different reasons.

    Your pyros are probably not dominating the parses because pyro is a difficult spec (at least at first), unlike the others in question.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 04-25-2013 at 09:30 AM.

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara cwharland's Avatar
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    When you guys are talking about getting "wrecked" by warriors/mages are you talking 1k+ dps? Anything below 1k really isn't that bad. RNG crits and little mistakes add up there. I'm seeing a general trend of warriors topping DPS but mages and rogues are never that far from each other. But a lot of times this is dumb stuff like spear dps and what not that is just fluff. Any examples of parses where rogues are consistently falling behind? Would be worth looking at what specifically can be done to help them out.
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