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Thread: Nb nb/sin

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    Default Nb nb/sin

    Now that 30% of a bosses health is nearing 8+ million don't you think that the 30% increased DMG these specs enjoy for the final 30% needs to be rethought? The increased dmg they are doing during this phase makes all other rogue specs irrelevant as the sub 30% phase represents a substantially longer period of time now... Either the remaining rogue DPS souls need some significant improvement or at least have the common decency to delete the specs from the rogue upon entering a raid and replace em with NB ect. It's getting played out watching fotm specs dominating the meters because of the final 30%.

    When rogue specs are hitting ~12-13k DPS but one soul gets to enjoy 16k easy mode for an ever increasing amount of time (as bosses hp pools inflate) it undermines class diversity for those of us that wish to be competitive ...

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry30 View Post
    Now that 30% of a bosses health is nearing 8+ million don't you think that the 30% increased DMG these specs enjoy for the final 30% needs to be rethought? The increased dmg they are doing during this phase makes all other rogue specs irrelevant as the sub 30% phase represents a substantially longer period of time now...
    Uh, you may want to double check your math there.

    Because when a boss has more health, the rest of the fight takes longer, as well, which means that proportionately, the last 30% is just as long compared to the rest of the fight as it always has been.

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    LOL this made me giggle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Uh, you may want to double check your math there.

    Because when a boss has more health, the rest of the fight takes longer, as well, which means that proportionately, the last 30% is just as long compared to the rest of the fight as it always has been.
    Not sure if you caught the intention of the post. Yes relatively speaking the other 70% also takes longer... Doesn't change the fact that the bottom 30% is the problem factor as with it taking ever increasing lengths of time it make the NB the dominant soul. More so enough that it will consistently top rogue dps souls because of the increased dmg during that phase.

    Generally speaking, NB and NB/SIN do competitive dmg also during the initial 70%. It's the increase for the last 30% that pushes well over the top consistently

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry30 View Post
    Not sure if you caught the intention of the post. Yes relatively speaking the other 70% also takes longer... Doesn't change the fact that the bottom 30% is the problem factor as with it taking ever increasing lengths of time it make the NB the dominant soul. More so enough that it will consistently top rogue dps souls because of the increased dmg during that phase.
    *sigh*

    Okay, two things. First off, the last 30% isn't taking longer, because gear and DPS scale up in later tiers along with boss health. Second, even if it did, it still wouldn't be a problem, because even if the last 30% is longer, so is the first 70%, which means it averages out to the same thing.

    Simple example: Let's say that you do 1000 DPS during the first 70%, and 2000 during the last 30%.

    If the enemy has 100k health, you spend 70 seconds doing 1k, and 15 seconds doing 2k. That's 100k total damage over 85 seconds, so your overall DPS is 100,000 /85=1176.47.

    If the boss instead has 1 million health, you spend 700 seconds doing 1k DPS, and 150 seconds doing 2k DPS. That's 1 million damage over 850 seconds, so your overall DPS is 1,000,000/850=1176.47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Uh, you may want to double check your math there.

    Because when a boss has more health, the rest of the fight takes longer, as well, which means that proportionately, the last 30% is just as long compared to the rest of the fight as it always has been.
    And since you talked math ... If a fight was 10 min that means on average for the final 3 min the NB soul gets the increased dmg but as soon as a fight goes to 15 min then on average they would get 4.5 minutes of the increases dmg... This is where the problem is noted. Longer boss fights (either due to hp pools or mechanics) favors the NB soul enough so that all others become irrelevant ...

    This wouldn't be the case if 61 NB and NB/SIN did 20-30% less Dmg during the first 70% but the fact is they actually perform similar to better in regards to DPS during the initial 70% as well ...

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    Last 30% of a fight is always shorter then the first 70% of the fight. It's not just rogues who have damage boosts sub-30%, it's clerics, warriors and mages too, everyone and their brother has damage boosts sub-30%.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    *sigh*

    Okay, two things. First off, the last 30% isn't taking longer, because gear and DPS scale up in later tiers along with boss health. Second, even if it did, it still wouldn't be a problem, because even if the last 30% is longer, so is the first 70%, which means it averages out to the same thing.

    Simple example: Let's say that you do 1000 DPS during the first 70%, and 2000 during the last 30%.

    If the enemy has 100k health, you spend 70 seconds doing 1k, and 15 seconds doing 2k. That's 100k total damage over 85 seconds, so your overall DPS is 100,000 /85=1176.47.

    If the boss instead has 1 million health, you spend 700 seconds doing 1k DPS, and 150 seconds doing 2k DPS. That's 1 million damage over 850 seconds, so your overall DPS is 1,000,000/850=1176.47.
    Tossing random equations shows nothing, the scaling of gear is hardly linear with boss hp pools. Forgoing class specific buffs thrown in a fight that temporarily increase everyone's dps, the average total raid dps will level off at some degree. Regulos for example around 200k total raid dps. Because of that leveled off rate of dmg that final 30% will take longer as it represents a larger amount of health. The longer that it takes, the more the NB soul is favored due to it 30% increased dmg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry30 View Post
    And since you talked math ... If a fight was 10 min that means on average for the final 3 min the NB soul gets the increased dmg but as soon as a fight goes to 15 min then on average they would get 4.5 minutes of the increases dmg...
    Yes, but you know what else they're getting? 11.5 minutes of not increased damage. See my post above. It averages out to the exact same thing regardless of the fight's duration.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry30 View Post
    Tossing random equations shows nothing, the scaling of gear is hardly linear with boss hp pools. Forgoing class specific buffs thrown in a fight that temporarily increase everyone's dps, the average total raid dps will level off at some degree. Regulos for example around 200k total raid dps. Because of that leveled off rate of dmg that final 30% will take longer as it represents a larger amount of health. The longer that it takes, the more the NB soul is favored due to it 30% increased dmg.
    That's not a random equation, that's how you calculate DPS. I don't think you understand how to average out DPS boosts.

    Your argument is akin to saying that Assassin is stronger on a 12-minute fight than a 2-minute one, because you get to use Slip Away and Poison Malice more times.

  12. #12
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    The only way a boss's HP pool could affect something like this is in timing of CDs i.e. if the HP pool is big enough to get off a 2nd ebon fury, etc. Other than that, I'm not sure you fully understand what the concept of a "percentage" is.
    <Condemned> - 4/4 ToDQ, 4/4 FT, 5/5 EE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry30 View Post
    Tossing random equations shows nothing,.
    Something tells me this guy also denies evolution and climate change

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    *sigh*

    Okay, two things. First off, the last 30% isn't taking longer, because gear and DPS scale up in later tiers along with boss health. Second, even if it did, it still wouldn't be a problem, because even if the last 30% is longer, so is the first 70%, which means it averages out to the same thing.

    Simple example: Let's say that you do 1000 DPS during the first 70%, and 2000 during the last 30%.

    If the enemy has 100k health, you spend 70 seconds doing 1k, and 15 seconds doing 2k. That's 100k total damage over 85 seconds, so your overall DPS is 100,000 /85=1176.47.

    If the boss instead has 1 million health, you spend 700 seconds doing 1k DPS, and 150 seconds doing 2k DPS. That's 1 million damage over 850 seconds, so your overall DPS is 1,000,000/850=1176.47.
    Here in your math you shoot yourself. 15 seconds vs 150 seconds where NB gets the 30% bonus and other rogue specs don't is why ever increasing health pools which result in the longer fights favors NB too much over other rogue dps souls ...

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry30 View Post
    Here in your math you shoot yourself. 15 seconds vs 150 seconds where NB gets the 30% bonus and other rogue specs don't is why ever increasing health pools which result in the longer fights favors NB too much over other rogue dps souls ...
    You apparently didn't notice that even though the execute phase lasted 10 times longer, the overall DPS was still exactly the same.

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