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Thread: Ranger feedback

  1. #1
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    Default Ranger feedback

    The current ranger doesn't really have a purpose for its existence. Full ranger lacks the dps and utility of MM or MM/Ranger hybrid and therefore no one is using it. Ranger rotation is also extremely simple and as such not fun.

    DPS
    The spec that parses highest is this: http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#zkllaGGlaB4/y9E/wn0
    On average it parses about 200-300 below 61 MM so it's close but still inferior and it relies on the pet. Aoe dps is also bad and if any aoe is needed then ranger is not the right build to bring.

    BUGS
    Pet crit power scaling seems bugged and it caps at 500 crit power which gives the max bonus. After that pet gains nothing from crit power. This is the same with all pet builds for all callings.

    OTHER ISSUES
    • Trick Shot combo points come with such a long delay that they are wasted a lot of the time. (this is also an issue with fiery chains)
    • Concussive Blast is a finisher and ruins your dps if you need to use it.
    • Ravenous Instincts is worse than Feral Instincts although it's higher in the tree. So the ability is useless until you get Multiple Instincts which is further into root than Ravenous Instincts. In fact it's barely even better than Predatory Instincts.


    HOW TO FIX IT
    • Reduce the duration of Ace Shot to 10 seconds.
    • Increase the bonus to Quick Shot damage on Thrill of the Kill to 10%/20% from 5%/10%.
    • Add 5% crit chance bonus to Ravenous Instincts.
    • Make Trick Shot by default the current improved version and have it award the extra combo points immediately. Change Improved Trick Shot to give a selfbuff which adds a ricochet to your next finisher, ricochet would do half of the damage done to the primary target to 5 nearby enemies.
    • Change Concussive Blast to just be a regular aoe interrupt without the damage component instead of a finisher. It doesn't even work as dps increase anymore after the Opportunity change during beta.

    The result would be that Ace Shot becomes a big part of the rotation and gives it an extra element to keep it more interesting. Maximizing dps is then a matter of optimizing the uptime of Splinter Shot and trying to refresh Ace Shot as late as possible. The Ace Shot and Thrill of the Kill changes cancel each other out regarding dps as you need to use more of the lower damage abilities than before and the goal is to increase the damage per ability difference between them so optimizing the uptime well is noticeable in dps. The main balance change to dps is the extra crit chance for Ravenous Instincts and it should be enough to push it around 200-300 ahead of 61 MM which has more mobility, range and utility. The Trick Shot changes would give it some efficient cleave.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Isn't the best ranger spec this one?

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#zkllaGGlaB4/yr8/ws
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

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    Ace Shot does significantly less DPS than Quick Shot. Reducing it's debuff duration to 10 secs would be a huge DPS loss.
    Sindariel - Mage - Brutmutter EU

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    I think the idea was increasing Thrill of the Kill's buff to Quick Shot would make up for it.

    And I do agree with the sentiment. I think far too much of Ranger just boils down to spamming Quick Shot and Twin Shot over and over and over. I'd like to see some more interesting mechanics or rotational ability changes brought in to spice up the gameplay a bit.


    My own idea is to have Ace Shot function more like a 'Ranged Serpent Strike' (the current Ace Shot is effective, but very boring). Could be a nice something to distinguish it a bit more from the Marksman.
    Last edited by Kedon; 04-04-2013 at 01:39 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Isn't the best ranger spec this one?

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#zkllaGGlaB4/yr8/ws
    I think you are right. I parsed it and got higher dps and higher max hits too. I need to parse it a few more times to see where it settles. I had completely missed this subsoul layout when I was looking for the build which parses highest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindariel View Post
    Ace Shot does significantly less DPS than Quick Shot. Reducing it's debuff duration to 10 secs would be a huge DPS loss.
    It's not that huge dps loss and like I said the buff to Quick Shot damage through Thrill of the Kill would compensate it. The whole point is that there is a significant damage per ability difference between Ace Shot and Quick Shot so you must optimize the amount of times you use Ace Shot which would result in a bit more complex rotation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I think you are right. I parsed it and got higher dps and higher max hits too. I need to parse it a few more times to see where it settles. I had completely missed this subsoul layout when I was looking for the build which parses highest.
    Good stuff. It has been a while since I parsed it out so wasn't sure myself. Another thing, if you can sub out all your crit power gear and use +ap and +crit gear instead.

    When I lasted tested ranger on PTS with the gear they give it was even with MM (+crit and ap). The problem was when I put on +crit power gear MM shot forward. I'm pretty sure crit power is bad for ranger because of ravenous instincts.
    Last edited by Mayi; 04-04-2013 at 01:44 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    I'm pretty sure crit power is bad for ranger because of ravenous instincts.
    And the bad crit power scaling of pets.
    Sindariel - Mage - Brutmutter EU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sindariel View Post
    And the bad crit power scaling of pets.
    Technically, the pet scales superbly with crit power, it's just that they hit the cap much more quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Good stuff. It has been a while since I parsed it out so wasn't sure myself. Another thing, if you can sub out all your crit power gear and use +ap and +crit gear instead.

    When I lasted tested ranger on PTS with the gear they give it was even with MM (+crit and ap). The problem was when I put on +crit power gear MM shot forward. I'm pretty sure crit power is bad for ranger because of ravenous instincts.
    Ravenous Instincts actually is not affected by the crit power cap so the pet gains the 10% crit power bonus even though it's already at max. However ranger does not have as much crit chance as MM and instead has plenty of AP/weapon damage from steady hand and burning rage. It's due to the pet scaling and after 500 crit power it's probably only worth about 0.4-0.5 compared to AP and at that point even crit rating is often better value from an item. I had 617 crit power when I was parsing.

    After a few parses with your spec I'd say it's about 200-300 above the spec I was at first parsing with and it's actually parsing the same as 61 MM for me now.

  10. #10
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    I think the best bet would be to improve the AOE cleaving ability of it through changes to Trick Shot and Concussive Blast. Ranger could carve out a niche as a strong ST spec with the ability to cleave, similar to BD, but ranged and reliant on the pet.
    Improved Trick Shot: Functionality changed. Now always generates an additional combo point if it hits more than 1 enemy. Deals increased damage the more enemies it hits. Combo points are now generated immediately upon firing.
    These changes will allow predictable and immediate combo point generation generation with Trick Shot.
    Concussive Blast: No longer a finisher. No longer deals damage. Cooldown increased to 15 seconds.
    Making this no longer a finisher and no longer deal damage simplifies its usage. An interrupt should not be a finisher. The longer cooldown accounts for the fact that it hits 3 targets.
    Pin Down: Removed.

    Destructive Blast: Replaces Pin Down. Finisher. Deals damage based on combo points to up to 5 enemies and weakens them, causing them to take 20% increased damage from Rain of Arrows for 10 seconds.
    This takes the place of Concussive Blast as the AOE finisher. It no longer interrupts, but it hits more targets and weakens them to Rain of Arrows. This makes AOE as a Ranger more effective and makes the rotation a bit more complex.
    Multiple Instincts: Now allows 3 active Instincts.
    This is the final push to give Ranger a bit more DPS without changing too much in its core makeup.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 04-08-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    I think the best bet would be to improve the AOE cleaving ability of it through changes to Trick Shot and Concussive Blast. Ranger could carve out a niche as a strong ST spec with the ability to cleave, similar to BD, but ranged and reliant on the pet.
    Improved Trick Shot: Functionality changed. Now always generates an additional combo point if it hits more than 1 enemy. Deals increased damage the more enemies it hits. Combo points are now generated immediately upon firing.
    These changes will allow predictable and immediate combo point generation generation with Trick Shot.
    Concussive Blast: No longer a finisher. No longer deals damage. Cooldown increased to 15 seconds.
    Making this no longer a finisher and no longer deal damage simplifies its usage. An interrupt should not be a finisher. The longer cooldown accounts for the fact that it hits 3 targets.
    Pin Down: Removed.

    Destructive Blast: Replaces Pin Down. Finisher. Deals damage based on combo points to up to 5 enemies and weakens them, causing them to take 20% increased damage from Rain of Arrows for 10 seconds.
    This takes the place of Concussive Blast as the AOE finisher. It no longer interrupts, but it hits more targets and weakens them to Rain of Arrows. This makes AOE as a Ranger more effective and makes the rotation a bit more complex.
    i like these changes....

  12. #12
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    I like it. Decent enough way to bring Trick Shot back into Ranger's AoE and break up the endless Rain of Arrows spam.

    And, yes, Pin Down can just go away. I've never found any kind of practical use for that ability for neither group or solo PvE (can't speak for PvP but since any damage breaks it I don't see how it could work out there either). So it's a good canditate to be dropped for a more interesting and useful ability.
    Last edited by Kedon; 04-08-2013 at 06:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedon View Post
    And, yes, Pin Down can just go away. I've never found any kind of practical use for that ability for neither group or solo PvE (can't speak for PvP but since any damage breaks it I don't see how it could work out there either). So it's a good canditate to be dropped for a more interesting and useful ability.
    I had once a usage for it, I knew where an assassin was hiding at, threw raid of arrows to proc Hidden Veil and managed to keep him CC'd while he was in stealth.

    Of course, because I was in ranger for some unholy reason, I got my *** kicked after he got out of stealth, but Pin Down had a use once.

    Once.

  14. #14
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    Also, revert the CD changes, 45s is just a very odd timing for a temporary damage buff, makes it largely impossible to time with other temporary raidbuffs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandarb View Post
    Also, revert the CD changes, 45s is just a very odd timing for a temporary damage buff, makes it largely impossible to time with other temporary raidbuffs.
    Pardon my ignorance but the changes you're talking about... didn't they just lower the CD by 15 seconds without doing anything else?

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