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Thread: What is Top Ranged DPS Now? 61 MM or MM/Ranger?

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    Rift Master Pope Zaphod's Avatar
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    Default What is Top Ranged DPS Now? 61 MM or MM/Ranger?

    Topic says it all. Conflicting posts saying that 61 MM or 40 MM / 36 Ranger are top ranged DPS specs. Looking for feedback from those that have parsed both builds.
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    61Rng/10sin/5Nb > 61MM/10/Sin/5Nb > 40Rng/36MM

    61MM might pull ahead depending on mechanics, differences are 500-700dps, parsed in dummy foundry with about 550CP and 4 piece bonus, piercing shot not used.

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    Soulwalker
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    I'm so glad somebody else noticed 61rng > all.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahr View Post
    I'm so glad somebody else noticed 61rng > all.
    No offense, but two people does not make a consensus, particularly when no one has provided detailed parses and one of them doesn't have the raid 4-piece.

    Maybe Ranger is ahead, but I've yet to see any proof of that.

    I don't have the ranger crystal on live, and I haven't gotten on the PTS to test it, but when I tested ranger without the crystal, I barely cracked 10k with both cooldowns up, and then I plummeted to around 8.5k on average. Considering that I can easily pull 10.5-11k sustained as Marksman, with spikes up to 13.5-14k, I doubt the Ranger crystal will be enough to close that gap.
    Last edited by Muspel; 02-12-2013 at 11:23 AM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandarb View Post
    61Rng/10sin/5Nb > 61MM/10/Sin/5Nb > 40Rng/36MM

    61MM might pull ahead depending on mechanics, differences are 500-700dps, parsed in dummy foundry with about 550CP and 4 piece bonus, piercing shot not used.
    I parsed 61 Ranger on the dummy quite awhile yesterday and found its a bit behind MM, but I only have 3 pc bonus at this point.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    I'll try to remember to copy my character over to the PTS and get some parses with Ranger after I get out of class today.

    It's possible that Ranger can pull ahead in raid if you sync it with various damage buffs (Flaring Power, Orchestra, etc.), but again, I don't think it's likely. And even if it's slightly ahead on the dummy, it'll probably still be behind in raid because the pet often suffers travel time and/or disconnects.
    Last edited by Muspel; 02-12-2013 at 11:30 AM.

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    Soulwalker
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    I cannot argue with other people with gear that is better than mine. As I cannot use personal experience for that. Like I said in the other post. I'm not in 1 piece of raid gear. Did just get the ranger 4/4 gilded. I used Gilded Crystal and Gilded Ranger Crystal.

    This is on Raid dummy in Tempest Bay with pet Razor Slash off.
    61RNG - Time: 03:38 Ally DPS: 9209 Kahr :9209

    This is on Raid Dummy in Tempest Bay
    61MM - Time: 03:43 Ally DPS: 8793 Kahr :8793

    This is without any consumables other than lightning glyphs. I have no cq power. I'm not saying that MM wouldn't be highest with raid gear, because honestly I don't know. I would like more study to be done with people who are in much better gear than me.

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    Soulwalker
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    Ugh, typo. Gilded marksman and gilded ranger****

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    To get a good analysis, I'd need to see the actual parse, including damage breakdowns. ACT or Hypatia will let you do this.

    This is so that I can check your rotation, and make sure that you don't have certain buffs "contaminating" the parse. For instance, when testing Ranger alongside Marksman, you need to take Piercing Shot out of the rotation, because it gives Ranger an advantage that it won't have in a normal group.

    I also don't recommend testing on the raid dummies in Tempest Bay, because other people may be hitting them and putting certain debuffs on them that boost their damage taken. Try putting a raid dummy in your dimension instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahr View Post
    I cannot argue with other people with gear that is better than mine. As I cannot use personal experience for that. Like I said in the other post. I'm not in 1 piece of raid gear. Did just get the ranger 4/4 gilded. I used Gilded Crystal and Gilded Ranger Crystal.

    This is on Raid dummy in Tempest Bay with pet Razor Slash off.
    61RNG - Time: 03:38 Ally DPS: 9209 Kahr :9209

    This is on Raid Dummy in Tempest Bay
    61MM - Time: 03:43 Ally DPS: 8793 Kahr :8793

    This is without any consumables other than lightning glyphs. I have no cq power. I'm not saying that MM wouldn't be highest with raid gear, because honestly I don't know. I would like more study to be done with people who are in much better gear than me.
    if you are parsing without fervor (to be fair i dont know how starved 61 RNG is) but i know 61MM is starved quite quick so i dont know how accountable those numbers are.

    regards

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    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Flaming View Post
    if you are parsing without fervor (to be fair i dont know how starved 61 RNG is) but i know 61MM is starved quite quick so i dont know how accountable those numbers are.

    regards
    61 ranger has about the same energy problems as 61 MM does, the 2 ogcd buffs from ranger eat energy. They also stack on the pet so it seemed to be the higher increase to use them together but energy could be a lot better if you use them separate.

    I wont post any claims to 1 being > than the other yet since it was 5am and i was to tried to think to parse on the pts with their respective crystals rather than parse both with the sin crystal and assume that the crystals would work out to the same dps (which i see the MM crystal being>>>than the ranger 1 but who knows).

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Okay, so, I did some testing in my own gear on the PTS's raid buffed dummies.

    My stats in a 0/0/0 spec with no consumables and maxed out T3 PA:

    Attack Power: 2638
    Dexterity: 1882
    Physical Crit: 1996
    Critical Power: 318
    Ranged Weapon DPS: 290.2
    Raid 4-piece: Yes

    I tested DPS with whetstones, but no other consumables (because I forgot to put them on for the first test, and didn't feel like redoing it).

    With 61 Ranger/10 Assassin/5 Nightblade, I was holding steady at 14k DPS. It peaked a bit higher during cooldowns, and dipped a bit below when they weren't active. You can see the parse here.

    With 61 Marksman/10 Assassin/5 Nightblade, I pulled 14.6k. I never once dropped below 14k, and rose above 15k for a bit. You can see the parse here.

    And like I mentioned earlier, Ranger would likely perform even worse in an actual raid, because the pet has to run to new mobs (Progenitor) and can't move fast enough to keep up with moving enemies (Twins).

    Ranger should have better AoE on enemies that aren't lined up, though. As long as you don't need to move while AoEing, anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by spowers454 View Post
    61 ranger has about the same energy problems as 61 MM does, the 2 ogcd buffs from ranger eat energy. They also stack on the pet so it seemed to be the higher increase to use them together but energy could be a lot better if you use them separate.
    Ranger seemed fine for energy (with Living Energy). The main reason why Marksman has issues is because of Empowered Shot (which costs more than most builders) and Free Recoil (which costs just as much as Ranger's oGCD abilities but is used way more often). MM also has Rapid Fire Shot, which costs more energy than most finishers.

    EDIT: For those who are interested, I also testing 61MM/10Ranger/5NB. As expected, it was very slightly below 10sin/5nb (by about 150 DPS), but it should have slightly better DPS on target swaps. See the parse here.
    Last edited by Muspel; 02-12-2013 at 04:00 PM.

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    Funny enough, right now on PTS, I was 200dps below the MM parse on ranger. And for some very strange reason I had zero ability lag issues on MM, while on ranger, every once in a while a skill wouldn't fire off even though there's only 2 macros with 2 skills each. *scratches his head*

    Also, I was using 61Rng last week on twins, and it parsed 10dps below the other rogue using the 61mm spec.

    I have them both anyways and I will continue comparing them. However, I do have a feeling that with added crit chance ranger will get better as it gets a full 10% crit power in the form of a buff.

    Fake Edit:

    Tested again in the dummy foundry, this time went back and used the test gear provided instead of my own gear (plus my own torvan cape).

    With the crit heavy test gear I'm back at ranger dealing 700 more dps.

    The issue seems to stem from the heavily different crit power scaling on the pet. Roughly 7CP per 1% crit damage increase on yourself, with 4.87CP per 1% crit damage increase on the pet. In essence, with my stats, my pet has long been capped and sits at 60% crit damage increase with the buff, while I myself sit at 31.1% crit damage increase. The other stats scale linear between you and the pet (minus runes). I wonder if that is a bug or intended.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandarb View Post
    Funny enough, right now on PTS, I was 200dps below the MM parse on ranger. And for some very strange reason I had zero ability lag issues on MM, while on ranger, every once in a while a skill wouldn't fire off even though there's only 2 macros with 2 skills each. *scratches his head*

    Also, I was using 61Rng last week on twins, and it parsed 10dps below the other rogue using the 61mm spec.

    I have them both anyways and I will continue comparing them. However, I do have a feeling that with added crit chance ranger will get better as it gets a full 10% crit power in the form of a buff.

    Fake Edit:

    Tested again in the dummy foundry, this time went back and used the test gear provided instead of my own gear (plus my own torvan cape).

    With the crit heavy test gear I'm back at ranger dealing 700 more dps.

    The issue seems to stem from the heavily different crit power scaling on the pet. Roughly 7CP per 1% crit damage increase on yourself, with 4.87CP per 1% crit damage increase on the pet. In essence, with my stats, my pet has long been capped and sits at 60% crit damage increase with the buff, while I myself sit at 31.1% crit damage increase. The other stats scale linear between you and the pet (minus runes). I wonder if that is a bug or intended.
    I found that Ravenous Instincts was a DPS loss compared to Feral+Predatory.

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    Ravenous and feral is definitely a dps gain. I parsed higher with it even though the feral and predatory parse showed an unusually high crit chance.

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