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Thread: How Does Your Raid or You Handle Broken Specs?

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default How Does Your Raid or You Handle Broken Specs?

    Here's a question for all you rogues about broken specs and how you handle them within your guild. I think it's a very legitimate question, especially since it seems everyone has a different opinion about what constitutes being 'broken' or what's an exploit. How do you handle imbalances, do you use these specs or no?

    MM-Rng (40-36): Is this a broken spec? It's our highest non-sab single target ranged spec and parses higher then 61MM and 61 Ranger. Can we infer that anything that parses higher then the 61 point souls is 'broken'?

    Tact-Bard (40-36): Lots have been said about veils being broken and healing for more then intended. Is this spec healing for more then intended, and if so is it broken?

    Sab-Rng-Sin: This spec is far above where our other ranged specs parse single target. It also has long ramp up time, there's no denying there's a bug that's making the spec parse higher then it should be.

    61 NB: Fiery spike is definitely doing more damage then intended by using flame blitz instead of blazing strike. Do you use this spec or no?

    The way I've looked at the situation and dealt with these issues/specs is I've been upfront about posting about them and have hidden nothing. Ailion browses our forums fairly regularly so he can see the results of the builds and make his own decision about what's broken or not and adjust accordingly. No 'don't post about X build' like warriors in their forums trying to hide something OP to gain an advantage.

    Souls are meant to be used and we are encouraged to experiment and mix up different souls to our liking - it's the intent of the game. So I use all the above builds and see no issue with it. What I do view as an exploit are things like:
    - applying buffs at certain times to gain benefits (restorative engine as mentioned by Ailion)
    - stacking whetstones
    - etc...

    Am I being hypocritical? How do you view the issue or what do you do?
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  2. #2
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    applying buffs at certain times to gain benefits (restorative engine as mentioned by Ailion)
    There's nothing wrong with reapplying your buffs if you gain new stats (Flaring Power, Bard Buffs, Archon Auras). I always reapply my passive buffs with Flaring Power. Granted, what you mentioned is slightly different... unless you are specifically just talking about utilizing something that is currently broken. *shrug*

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Why would I willingly play something that's miles behind other DPS specs? There's nothing wrong with playing the best spec available for an encounter really, And I like the choices we have ATM. I'd just like it if all DPS souls across the classes would finally be on par.

    Other than that it's really just bad design from Trions side. Until they redo that, you'd be stupid to use subpar specs depending on the encounter.
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  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Delmlord's Avatar
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    define broken

    imo Trion messed up, report it. Funny thing is broken encounters require broken specs to beat.
    Last edited by Delmlord; 01-13-2013 at 06:17 AM.
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  5. #5
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Brokenness is a spectrum, there isn't really a hard and fast line and everyone has their own definitions of where the border lies.

    A spec that is performing above intended by a moderate margin I don't think is exploiting, it's clever use of mechanics such as Building Storm for Mages or Rising Waterfall for Warriors. Neither of these were utilising broken mechanics, Trion just hadnt considered them. Light of Redemption or Mark of Exclusion stacking infinite times is definitely an exploit of broken abilities. Those two extremes I think everyone can agree on, between that it's personal opinion.

    Fiery Spike, Sab, Chloro, RB/VK and others are all currently or have been broken to some extent recently. But I don't consider their use exploitation by the playerbase, people almost always take the path of least resistance. If one RB/VK were parsing 25k + on fights then I would consider it exploitation because that is too far outside what is reasonable. But that is my subjective judgement.

    TLDR: Sometimes you can look and clearly see intentional exploitation such as Crushing Runeshard or Powerstone stacking. But most of the time it's not so obvious or clear cut.
    Nope.

  6. #6
    General of Telara Asaomar's Avatar
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    Use the best specs possible. If/when nerfs or changes come about, parse to find new good builds and use those until the next round of changes. Gimping your guild's progression due to a build being stronger than it should be is stupid.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Tact-Bard (40-36): Lots have been said about veils being broken and healing for more then intended. Is this spec healing for more then intended, and if so is it broken?
    There are two bug/issues atm with Resto Eng. It is doubling bonuses at its base which is resulting in ~2x heals. And the active buff itself is static and not dynamic resulting in significant extra heals (upwards of 2x). So yes, it is broken.

  8. #8
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    This'll be a great big can of worms.

    My rough baseline for calling something broken is purely dependent on an ability's stated tooltip values.

    Since those are calculated dynamically, and going with the assumption that they are the intended values, its pretty easy to draw a line between what is broken and what is not.

    Almost all of the currently debated 'broken' specs revolves around abilities that do almost exactly twice as much as their tooltip states. Mostly because they are all broken due to the same bug. Defilers, chloros, tact/brd, rng/sab/sin, vk, and some rumored cleric spec.

    I consider all of them broken as is, currently.

    Whether or not someone uses them is on them individually. Those who do will often justify it one way or another, but that's all it is. The specs are still broken whether or not you acknowledge it or not.

    If you blame the players who use these specs, you'd have to blame Trion as well. They're responsible for the game being in the state that it is. But the player can't really just get away scot free if you're going to be pointing fingers.

    That'd be like some hacker saying "I'm not guilty, its not my fault that I took the path of least resistance to personal wealth by exploiting a fault in the bank's systems. They shouldn't have had that there in the first place!" Things just don't work that way.

    Knowledge of how something works and using it to your own personal advantage despite knowing that that isn't meant to be is flat out exploiting. You can call it whatever you like if it helps you sleep at night; I just hope I never have to meet you or deal with you in any way, shape or form IRL. Especially if you're one of those people who honestly believes that exploiting loopholes and unintended shortcuts is perfectly legit.
    Last edited by MoonfireSpam; 01-13-2013 at 03:30 PM.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Domey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    *snip* and some rumored cleric spec.
    What spec is that?

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Domey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domey View Post
    What spec is that?
    nvm, i did some digging and figured it out...

    http://i.imgur.com/SQr0u.jpg

    level 53 cleric lololol

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Well at least we have more builds worth playing with these " bugs ".

    Having more Builds to choose is good , sadly we are still at 6 role slots .
    I have no issues playing op specs and i dont think using any of the mentioned specs is exploiting .

    Well i will never do thinks like stacking whetstones was something like abusing game lag afaik never paid much attention to that issue .
    Last edited by Mordim; 01-13-2013 at 08:58 PM.

  12. #12
    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    I have no issues with broken specs and TBh I try my best to get as many rogues in my guild to run them as I can. Right now we finally have a spec to apply lethal poison without being in a melee ST build, and still be able to compete on the dps meter. I didn;t put the bugs in the game but as long as they as there and help myself/raid I will gladly use them.

  13. #13
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    If you're spec is doing more damage or healing than the math says it should, then its broken.

    This means that the Flame Blitz rotation is obviously broken, and so its ranger-sin-sab. Both of these have DoTs that do more damage than they should, by a lot.

    Tact-Bard is broken because the devs specifically explained that the method it uses to boost healing is a bug.

    MM/Ranger is obviously not broken. Everything checks out with the math.

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