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Thread: Bard/Tactician build

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Kruce's Avatar
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    Default Bard/Tactician build

    So I've dabbled with a significant amount of bard builds, and I've recently made this one. I used to play 54Bard/22Tact and I've switched out a few points for this build. I just wanted your opinion on if it's worth it or not. I get a lot more bard healing and seemingly more dps, as well as being able to keep up my normal buffs/debuffs as usual with the new build:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#vmacEFl5i4g/Tkx0kx0/
    Last edited by Kruce; 01-04-2013 at 07:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    It looks ok, but its' worth depends on what you are doing with it.

    If you are looking for more heals, you will most likely find that 40 bard/ 36 tactician heals for truck loads more. A single Empyrean Bolt hit with Restorative Engine up heals for as much as Verse of Vitality on twice as many people. And it heals for 2-3x a cadence tic, again on twice as many people. I easily doubled my HPS switching to this from a standard 61 bard spec. Then you get power core which is 2x 10% damage and healing in 2 minutes compared to one 15% for Orchestra.

    With mass repulsion, it kind of looks like you might be going pvp, but there's a number of choices that leave me confused. Taking Riff without Virtuoso seems a bit odd. I don't think Power Chord, even with Chord of Inspiration is ever any good. The healing is the same as 1 tic of Cadence and the damage is some faction that I forget of Cadenza and either way is a bad trade off. You are better served by clipping either a Cadenza or a Cadence depending on what you want to do.

    Talented Composer needs to be at 2/2 to give whatever group you are a part of the most leeway with movement.

    Taking Anthem of Glory when you have Improved Anthem of Competence is also odd, but not indefensible as you probably won't have an archon in a 10 man.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    ^^ spot on, in every way, try out the 40/36 for maximum raid healing potential, and better optimize your raid support skills, preparing to apply certain buffs and debuffs if raiding sans archon, you still have dps skills also you can perform while maintaining the core raid buffs (which is your primary mission) by simply switching to necrotic engine and being dps oriented with finishers, alternating debuff codas/cow/cof with empyrean ray (rotation usually allows room for that 1.5 sec cast, just feels a bit tighter) you can actually parse higher dps or hps than any other bard build made for raid buffing).

  4. #4
    Champion Highland's Avatar
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    I do about 12k hps during some fights using 40/36, other healers take away some of that but my dps is between 3.6 and 4.2k ST, could do slightly higher if I sacrifice more healing, I refuse to believe that a deeper bard will do more dps or hps without anyone else swapping to aoe healing.
    If a fight has need of alot of healers, I will very from 6-8k hps, but this will totally stop when all the specs get fixed ( tact heals, chloro heals etc ).

    My idea is that these are purposefully bugged for the current encounters would be overtuned so we progress during christmas and now, but thats just my theory.

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  5. #5
    Soulwalker Kruce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    ^^ spot on, in every way, try out the 40/36 for maximum raid healing potential, and better optimize your raid support skills, preparing to apply certain buffs and debuffs if raiding sans archon, you still have dps skills also you can perform while maintaining the core raid buffs (which is your primary mission) by simply switching to necrotic engine and being dps oriented with finishers, alternating debuff codas/cow/cof with empyrean ray (rotation usually allows room for that 1.5 sec cast, just feels a bit tighter) you can actually parse higher dps or hps than any other bard build made for raid buffing).
    Thanks for all the replies everyone. Looking at my previous build, I can see a few things that I don't understand why I put points into. Anyway, Mirimon.. I've seen you recommend the 40/36 build all around the forums and I've been really excited to try it out (Which I have a bit), but I'm not sure I've put points into the right things. Is there any possible way you could link me to a good example of the 40/36 bard/tact. Also, would you recommend that over a 61 bard build for raids? I appreciate the help in advanced everyone.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker Kruce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruce View Post
    Thanks for all the replies everyone. Looking at my previous build, I can see a few things that I don't understand why I put points into. Anyway, Mirimon.. I've seen you recommend the 40/36 build all around the forums and I've been really excited to try it out (Which I have a bit), but I'm not sure I've put points into the right things. Is there any possible way you could link me to a good example of the 40/36 bard/tact. Also, would you recommend that over a 61 bard build for raids? I appreciate the help in advanced everyone.
    EDIT: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...zVR0qot0bV.-11

    I saw you post that in another thread a while back, would you say that still works? Are you using Tact builders/finishers with the exception of bard debuffs?

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    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruce View Post
    EDIT: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...zVR0qot0bV.-11

    I saw you post that in another thread a while back, would you say that still works? Are you using Tact builders/finishers with the exception of bard debuffs?
    exactly.. tact builders with empyrean bolt, then alternate using any Coda and curative blast, with cores/remotes when off cd.

    the best part is that there are soo many ways to move points around and keep many of the core healing attributes, seldom ever use torrents for much of anything? take points out of them to improve bolt dmg, or to improve your mitigation. It is a very adaptable build and will serve us while for a little while, until unreasonable qq's get it changed. (they would have to do some serious restructuring to 61point bard to ever make bringing them worth while, or nerf the gains from tact in a way that we can't hybrid like we do)

    for pvp i put enough points into mm for vamp munitions, and then tact, and do raid wide healing while applying vamp on everybody, fyi, empyrean engine can spread vamp via it's aoe component, handy to use when raid healing is fine, just swap to emp engine and spread debuffs, then to necro engine and burst st some healers, empyrean ray usually is strong enough to bring people close to sub 30%, and necrobolt will do the rest.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Default Rotation

    Is there a rotation you can provide for this build. [
    QUOTE=Mirimon;4105949]exactly.. tact builders with empyrean bolt, then alternate using any Coda and curative blast, with cores/remotes when off cd.

    the best part is that there are soo many ways to move points around and keep many of the core healing attributes, seldom ever use torrents for much of anything? take points out of them to improve bolt dmg, or to improve your mitigation. It is a very adaptable build and will serve us while for a little while, until unreasonable qq's get it changed. (they would have to do some serious restructuring to 61point bard to ever make bringing them worth while, or nerf the gains from tact in a way that we can't hybrid like we do)

    for pvp i put enough points into mm for vamp munitions, and then tact, and do raid wide healing while applying vamp on everybody, fyi, empyrean engine can spread vamp via it's aoe component, handy to use when raid healing is fine, just swap to emp engine and spread debuffs, then to necro engine and burst st some healers, empyrean ray usually is strong enough to bring people close to sub 30%, and necrobolt will do the rest.[/QUOTE]

  9. #9
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    If it's PvP Bard/Tac, I prefer 42/34, but the 40/36 is a good starting point.
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    for rotations.. since resto engine is still bugged in a very nice way, I tend to use it more

    5 bolts>coda>1bolt>curative blast>spam bolts until time to refresh motifs and primer amp

    now.. when you get into the fight, and start to understand the timing of damage.. you may see the old 5cp>coda>5cp>curative blast work better.. perfectly timed codas will help you snipe healing on predicted raid dmg and scoot you up the hps meter (but you aren't really doing those healers any favors this way)

    imo.. better to have consistent high hps rather than spike to snipe heals, as this will let those blue casters more effectively manage mana for when it's really needed, clearing content should>individual parse... but we all know how people get focused on parses...

    i also like to pop my remotes and cores between my last cp and my finisher, but meh, play with those rotations until you get comfortable.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Are u sure Resto is still bugged. I tested in duels and was seeing it appropriate to tool tip
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    yeah, atm it's still there, doing 3-4k per heal, non crit.. I would like it to stay, imo.. as it still parses under the real healers.. and helps fill that role of support, staving off death long enough for a healer to rez/getrezzed/perform mechanics. I don't want to top charts.. just want it to feel useful, and in a visibly measurable way, I disliked the year+ of buffbotting.

    what if we do lose the heals, to a the point that they are little more than ineffective? I would then propose a shift in support to modifying the buffs they give to scale with their base stats+gear stats. This would be a great change for such an important job that nobody wants to do and never get thanked for, the support are often with a raid group the longest, while many others get their gear and leave, to be replaced.

  13. #13
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    yeah, atm it's still there, doing 3-4k per heal, non crit.. I would like it to stay, imo.. as it still parses under the real healers.. and helps fill that role of support, staving off death long enough for a healer to rez/getrezzed/perform mechanics. I don't want to top charts.. just want it to feel useful, and in a visibly measurable way, I disliked the year+ of buffbotting.

    what if we do lose the heals, to a the point that they are little more than ineffective? I would then propose a shift in support to modifying the buffs they give to scale with their base stats+gear stats. This would be a great change for such an important job that nobody wants to do and never get thanked for, the support are often with a raid group the longest, while many others get their gear and leave, to be replaced.
    Before 2.1, the Tact/Bard build healed quite well using Cadence (this was also when Restorative Engine had a range and target issue). I don't think you should be so worried about losing your healing potential. Although Invigorated Soul is only hitting 5 targets, the continuous channel aspect can make up for that. Then, your primary healing output came from Curative Blast and Invigorated Soul.

    When I ran it during Frozen Tempest progression I felt very useful along side the non-bugged Chloros, Sents and Wardens.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitto View Post
    Before 2.1, the Tact/Bard build healed quite well using Cadence (this was also when Restorative Engine had a range and target issue). I don't think you should be so worried about losing your healing potential. Although Invigorated Soul is only hitting 5 targets, the continuous channel aspect can make up for that. Then, your primary healing output came from Curative Blast and Invigorated Soul.

    When I ran it during Frozen Tempest progression I felt very useful along side the non-bugged Chloros, Sents and Wardens.
    even with the range issue, I still ran resto engine bolts in 40/36 from beta out... since even then, range issues included, it out parsed invig soul by as much as twice.

    though the bug is high healing, without it it's still healing in overall parses 400-800 more hps on self than invig.. that difference, and on more people.. means regardless invig soul is not for raid healing, at all.. deep bard for dps support, 40/36 for heal support.

    40/36>deep bard for healing, though it is far more than deep bard, it will feel rather feeble in terms of raid contribution.

    the last time invig soul was our primary heal was when Bard itself got it's QoL changes, pre SL, just before it got nerfed due to player qq from people not yet familiar with their cleric/mage changes.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    even with the range issue, I still ran resto engine bolts in 40/36 from beta out... since even then, range issues included, it out parsed invig soul by as much as twice.

    though the bug is high healing, without it it's still healing in overall parses 400-800 more hps on self than invig.. that difference, and on more people.. means regardless invig soul is not for raid healing, at all.. deep bard for dps support, 40/36 for heal support.

    40/36>deep bard for healing, though it is far more than deep bard, it will feel rather feeble in terms of raid contribution.

    the last time invig soul was our primary heal was when Bard itself got it's QoL changes, pre SL, just before it got nerfed due to player qq from people not yet familiar with their cleric/mage changes.
    When they fix the double dip bug for healing, deep bard will be the much better option. If you know how to play bard, you can do adequate healing when required and significantly more DPS overall. Plus the fact that 61 bard results in higher overall raid DPS and raid burst if your raid knows how to play.

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