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Thread: So.... bard crystal

  1. #1
    Telaran Carear's Avatar
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    Default So.... bard crystal

    Yesterday I used bard in a hunt rift. The level that I could influence an encounter on bard was enough to pull me away from the big numbers flashing on the screen. So I took a look at the bard crystal in Tempest Bay.

    I was expecting something like a bonus to the debuffing codas. Maybe duration/recast on Virtuoso. Instead it's bonused to healing. Some of the crystals (MM, Ranger, NB, BD) make sense on first look, although I'm sure someone will run the numbers just to be certain. But I wanted to ask: is the bard crystal worth picking up?

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  2. #2
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Yes it's worth picking up, but it gives no bonuses to healing. The bonus is to the damage of cadence and cadenza.

    Bard dps isn't a joke anymore and matters. If I do a dungeon as a bard and use a full dps rotation, if you add my dps and the dps I add to members of the group through debuffs and buffs, I contribute as much dps as replacing me with a dps.

    Usually I hit around 4-5k and add 2k dps per dps in the group.
    Last edited by Mayi; 12-04-2012 at 04:56 AM.
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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Usually I hit around 4-5k and add 2k dps per dps in the group.
    I think you'd have a hard to backing up that 2k-per-member number with anything approaching real data.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    True, it's all anecdotal. I find most dps in our groups (geared guildies) hit around 7-8k dps and it goes up to 9-10k with bard buffs/debuffs.

    One of my major complaints about bards was they were balanced around raids and not dungeons, they seem to be balanced around dungeons now and are very effective is my main point. I don't want to get into a big theorycraft on bard buffs/debuffs but the 2k mark is about what I see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    I think you'd have a hard to backing up that 2k-per-member number with anything approaching real data.
    2K is just about right actually. CoJ is ~430 DPS. CoC and CoD add between 400-700 DPS. OoP adds 3-400 if people know how to play. FoP + MoB adds a 300 or so. Fervor adds a couple hundred. So it is right around 2K for the 2 DPS. Which puts the bard properly played at around 9-10k total contribution in a 5 man.

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    the problem is the change to cadenz, former the healing was derived of the damage it made, now its a fixed 6% of ap. (Which reallly doesnt make much sense.) Bard was cool when your healing was related to your damage.

    the synergy crystal for bard seems to be a relic of old times, and noone at trion thought about it for people wanting to play bard as healer not dd... pitty...
    Last edited by Antigonos; 12-04-2012 at 08:30 AM.

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    Plane Touched HmmmNO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    I think you'd have a hard to backing up that 2k-per-member number with anything approaching real data.
    He's about right if not really close with 2k / dps member increase, also including your own dps, a well played bard is not a bad option to go in 5 mans.

    I'm a bit worried that the great advanced rogue strategy doesn't have a special chapter for bards.

    Also, to the OP, you have to think your gearing strategy when it comes to 4pc bonus. You don't have to only look at the crystal bonus and ignore the stat trade-off you have to do to take it because most of our items have physical crit on them, which is more or less a useless compared to other options.

    It can happen that from the dps point of view, the trade-off you'll do to gain the 4pc set bonus will be worst. (this also applies to any 4pc bonus - expert gear)
    Last edited by HmmmNO; 12-04-2012 at 08:36 AM.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HmmmNO View Post
    I'm a bit worried that the great advanced rogue strategy doesn't have a special chapter for bards.

    Also, to the OP, you have to think your gearing strategy when it comes to 4pc bonus. You don't have to only look at the crystal bonus and ignore the stat trade-off you have to do to take it because most of our items have physical crit on them, which is more or less a useless compared to other options.

    It can happen that from the dps point of view, the trade-off you'll do to gain the 4pc set bonus will be worst. (this also applies to any 4pc bonus - expert gear)
    Helm, shoulders, chest and boots from the dungeon vendor ftw.

    Bards aren't too difficult to play imo but maybe a thread should be started to theorycraft a bit. What I do for dps is pretty simple:

    #show cadenza
    cast verse of agony
    cast cadenza

    Spam that to 5cps and then coda of wrath. Use multiple oscilations if 3+ mobs (there's no real gain with 2 mobs) and switch to coda of fury as a finisher.

    Start off with 2-3 point debuffs and coda of jeopardy - then verse of joy and orchestra - virtuoso and coda of wrath spam (if I don't think I'll need it later for healing in an emergency if the healer dies). Then go to 5 cp finishers before switching to damage (this is when I use Riff). Coda of jeopardy can be used with 2 cps because the cps only effect duration now and not damage.

    If the healer needs help with aoe healing I go: power cord - cadenza - wrath or power cord - cadence - wrath/restoration. If the healer dies or I need to heal a lot double cadence and restoration.

    I can't count the number of times I've kept the group up after the healer dies... heck, a couple of times the tank died and I kited the boss around the last 10% in an expert.
    Last edited by Mayi; 12-04-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    The bard crystal seems about right, it just is awkward for the soul until you have the best crystal. The weak one just gives a damage bonus, but then the better one grants a healing bonus. The bard crystal ultimately giving a bonus to the main damaging abilities and a bonus to healing seems right in line with bard. Just have to deal with only receiving a DPS benefit until you get the better crystal.
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  10. #10
    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post

    #show cadenza
    cast verse of agony
    cast power cord
    cast cadenza
    Fixed it 4 ya, now its a 5cp rotation with 15% dmg increase on cadenza

  11. #11
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spowers454 View Post
    Fixed it 4 ya, now its a 5cp rotation with 15% dmg increase on cadenza
    Using power cord is a dps loss. You end up getting less verse of agonies if you use power chord.

    The benefit of power cord is if you want to do a mix of healing and dps since it's like cadence but does more damage. Double cadence is also more hps then power chord - cadence. It's like this:

    Cadenza - Cadenza - verse of wrath = highest dps with no hps
    Power Chord - Cadenza - verse of wrath = 2nd highest dps with some hps
    ....
    Cadence - Cadence - verse of restoration = highest hps with little dps
    Last edited by Mayi; 12-04-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post

    Cadenza - Cadenza - verse of wrath = highest dps with no hps
    Power Chord - Cadenza - verse of wrath = 2nd highest dps with some hps
    ....
    Cadence - Cadence - verse of restoration = highest hps with little dps
    Damn, wrote verse instead of coda here but the concept holds.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Spam that to 5cps and then coda of wrath. Use multiple oscilations if 3+ mobs (there's no real gain with 2 mobs) and switch to coda of fury as a finisher.
    This is in fact not correct. There is significant gain at 2 mobs...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by spowers454 View Post
    Fixed it 4 ya, now its a 5cp rotation with 15% dmg increase on cadenza
    and an overall dps loss. If you are using powercord, you are doing it wrong...

  15. #15
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    This is in fact not correct. There is significant gain at 2 mobs...
    What's the dps gain from? Osc halves cadenza's damage and there are 2 mobs?
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