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Thread: Why is assassin speak so weak-sauce compared to ranged rogue specs

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Why is assassin speak so weak-sauce compared to ranged rogue specs

    I like playing a stealthy melee rogue. When I left this game before I always got flak trying to raid as Assassin. Ranged specs bore the hell out of me. Ditto for classes with pets.

    Is this still the case in this game?

    Im only level 51 but it takes me 3 times as long to burn down a trash mob as assassin vs. how long it takes me in any range spec. I've upgraded my gear to the best that I can given my level and amount of coin. I had a pair of level 50 daggers made (96.4 dps) and I've upgrade a few pieces of gear. (so far only 2 quests yielded gear that was better than what I had pre-expansion) Even with a pre-expansion bow my ranged spec is orders of magnitude stronger.

    Right now its excruciatingly tedious trying to level as an assassin rogue.

    Does assassin get any better at 60?
    Last edited by Blazemon; 12-03-2012 at 10:07 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Khatovar's Avatar
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    I run as an assassin most of the time on my rogue now. It got a pretty good little buff with SL. Some encounters will definitely be easier with (or outright require) a ranged spec or AOE or CC that Assassin does not offer, but if it is a ST or priority target fight and melee is at all viable I run Assassin. I get better ST dps out of my Assassin ST than I do ranged, and I just find it fun.

    If you need to do some AOE and still want to melee, Bladedancer works very well. I generally switch between the roles of Assassin and BD quite a bit.

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    Rift Chaser Darkjoy's Avatar
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    It's not?

    Sin dominates?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khatovar View Post
    I run as an assassin most of the time on my rogue now. It got a pretty good little buff with SL. Some encounters will definitely be easier with (or outright require) a ranged spec or AOE or CC that Assassin does not offer, but if it is a ST or priority target fight and melee is at all viable I run Assassin. I get better ST dps out of my Assassin ST than I do ranged, and I just find it fun.

    If you need to do some AOE and still want to melee, Bladedancer works very well. I generally switch between the roles of Assassin and BD quite a bit.
    So why does it take me so long to burn down a level 50 trash mob in the first new zone? I seriously throw down 8+ full 5 point combos taking a mob down.

    I start in stealth with the stealth DOT attack (forget the name), then immediately throw down my other DOT, then my first 5 point combo I throw down the finisher DOT, then I spam the 5-point damage only finisher and refreshing DOTS as I go. I also spam my 1-2 minute cooldowns as soon as they are available.

    If I get 2 mobs on me I'm in trouble, 3 and I'm dead for sure if I don't have my vanish up. My stuns fail half the time and even when they succeed its only 10 seconds.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Try leveling with a build that allows you to take some punishment and also deal out some AE damage. Bladedancer and Riftstalker combination would offer this albeit without the ability to stealth unless you add a dash of Assassin or Nightblade as the 3rd soul.

    You really are making things very difficult for yourself by sticking to high Assassin.

    When you hit the new normals, experts and raids you are in for a rude shock. Most of the fights are inherently melee unfriendly and you will need an effective ranged spec to avoid being vote-kicked for being constantly dead or only doing 2k dps.
    Last edited by Zazen; 12-03-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  6. #6
    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say the Expert fights aren't melee friendly. I haven't come across a single Expert boss that I couldn't survive as a melee spec yet, except Necrotic Throne. (Even Manslaughter is possible to melee on.)

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    Shadowlander Bugg87's Avatar
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    My spec of choice is melee, melee hands down is the highest DPS spec for every class (higher risk, higher gains). Assassin is great for downing mobs (not good for "farming" due to low survivability). I'm LVL 60 however, the most I can take on at once is 2 mobs.

    The general rule for assassins (when going 1 on 1 with anything), the longer the fight the less likely you are to survive.

    I used a blard for solo play, my ST (boss) dps spec is 61 NB, my trash (aoe dungeon/raid) spec is tactician w/ a lil MM in it. You say 2K dps, you're doing it wrong. I love melee and I melee on EVERY boss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farhopper View Post
    Your out of you league here Fritz. any 8 bit hacker knows that only prepubescent girls with self esteem issues put up avatar picks of trolls and strut around forums like a tactless moron. your mothers a ***** and your father smelled of elderberries you masochistic malevolent!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugg87 View Post
    My spec of choice is melee, melee hands down is the highest DPS spec for every class (higher risk, higher gains). Assassin is great for downing mobs (not good for "farming" due to low survivability). I'm LVL 60 however, the most I can take on at once is 2 mobs.

    The general rule for assassins (when going 1 on 1 with anything), the longer the fight the less likely you are to survive.

    I used a blard for solo play, my ST (boss) dps spec is 61 NB, my trash (aoe dungeon/raid) spec is tactician w/ a lil MM in it. You say 2K dps, you're doing it wrong. I love melee and I melee on EVERY boss.
    Guess I'll give NB a shot. I'm a melee player at heart, always have been. I don't mind playing ranged sporadically but as a raider I want to be melee. Out farming I want to be melee. PVP I want to be melee. (well don't care much at all for PVP but when I do I like melee/stealth classes)

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    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugg87 View Post
    My spec of choice is melee, melee hands down is the highest DPS spec for every class (higher risk, higher gains). Assassin is great for downing mobs (not good for "farming" due to low survivability). I'm LVL 60 however, the most I can take on at once is 2 mobs.

    The general rule for assassins (when going 1 on 1 with anything), the longer the fight the less likely you are to survive.

    I used a blard for solo play, my ST (boss) dps spec is 61 NB, my trash (aoe dungeon/raid) spec is tactician w/ a lil MM in it. You say 2K dps, you're doing it wrong. I love melee and I melee on EVERY boss.
    If I play 61 Marksman or Marksman/Ranger hybrid I will out-dps you on 90% of expert dungeon bosses. On those few bosses that are melee friendly I will play Bladedancer and it will be down to build, gear, rotation, latency and rng.

    If you are not above 8k single target against expert bosses then you are not playing efficiently. You should be closer to 9k but you won't be, as melee, except for those fights where being in melee does not kill you or offer significant disconnect from dps'ing.

    You can melee, but if you are playing a melee build for every fight you are not an effective rogue whereas you can effectively play a ranged build on every single boss in the 5, 10 and 20 man dungeons.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to play melee more but that is not optimal for the current content.
    Last edited by Zazen; 12-03-2012 at 02:03 PM.

  10. #10
    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    If you are not above 8k single target against expert bosses then you are not playing efficiently.
    Holy cow, 8k? Is that for Rogues only or all callings?
    Last edited by Kriptini; 12-03-2012 at 02:09 PM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriptini View Post
    Holy cow, 8k? Is that for Rogues only or all callings?
    I'm speaking for rogues.

    Warriors are not in a great place at the moment and their ranged dps is not as competitive as rogues or mages.

    Mages are at the top of the tree but not by much over rogues.

    I don't see many cleric dps in experts (I infrequently pug so that could just be me) so I'm not sure where they stand. I can say from 10-man and-20 man raids with my guild, clerics are down the table of dps.
    Last edited by Zazen; 12-03-2012 at 02:24 PM.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    8k is easily doable... clerics and (ele) mages will be pretty much ahead due to heavy cds for the start.

    Sin is pretty awesome in raid settings, BD is ahead in experts.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazemon View Post
    So why does it take me so long to burn down a level 50 trash mob in the first new zone? I seriously throw down 8+ full 5 point combos taking a mob down.

    I start in stealth with the stealth DOT attack (forget the name), then immediately throw down my other DOT, then my first 5 point combo I throw down the finisher DOT, then I spam the 5-point damage only finisher and refreshing DOTS as I go. I also spam my 1-2 minute cooldowns as soon as they are available.

    If I get 2 mobs on me I'm in trouble, 3 and I'm dead for sure if I don't have my vanish up. My stuns fail half the time and even when they succeed its only 10 seconds.
    You're doing something wrong or your gear is significantly underpar for your level. Have you trained up all your skills?

    IMO assassin is ideal for soloing single mobs. When opening from stealth, at most you should only have to go thru three full 5 point combo rotations. What I typically do is open with Jagged for 3 combo point, Puncture for the 4th, then Serpent Strike for the 5th combo point. First finisher is Impale. After that its five more builders and then Final Blow. By then the mob is usually close to death and I finish them off with more builders. Rarely do I need a third finisher for normal mobs.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Bugg87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    If I play 61 Marksman or Marksman/Ranger hybrid I will out-dps you on 90% of expert dungeon bosses. On those few bosses that are melee friendly I will play Bladedancer and it will be down to build, gear, rotation, latency and rng.

    If you are not above 8k single target against expert bosses then you are not playing efficiently. You should be closer to 9k but you won't be, as melee, except for those fights where being in melee does not kill you or offer significant disconnect from dps'ing.

    You can melee, but if you are playing a melee build for every fight you are not an effective rogue whereas you can effectively play a ranged build on every single boss in the 5, 10 and 20 man dungeons.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to play melee more but that is not optimal for the current content.
    Well, from current dungeon runs...haven't hit any experts yet, been working my HIT up....I pull the highest dps in every dungeon I've currently ran. A little MM with NB helps with the disconnects especially if SoD is active. I can and have effectively played a melee spec in all content, except SL content that requires 300 HIT (I currently sit at 265). Not only am I an effective rogue, I am an effective melee rogue. So just because YOU can't "effectively" play a melee rogue doesn't mean that in the right hands they are not capable.

    I am by no means your "average" player which i believe your post is targeting. I am familiar w/ boss mechanics and when to use my CDs and my rotation is top notch. I hate standing in one spot and spamming 3 keys. I work the mechanics very well, I get "heroic" boons all the time. Melee is just challenging and not for everyone.

    I speak from my experiences and a few of the other melee rogues in my guild that can't stand ranged. "Not melee friendly" - Iraq isn't U.S friendly but we're still over there tearing **** up. Get in there an rip the boss' face off. All of the "heroic boons" I've received in dungeons have happened while in my melee spec.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farhopper View Post
    Your out of you league here Fritz. any 8 bit hacker knows that only prepubescent girls with self esteem issues put up avatar picks of trolls and strut around forums like a tactless moron. your mothers a ***** and your father smelled of elderberries you masochistic malevolent!!!

  15. #15
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    At 60, with self buffs and nothing else, you can gnaw on mobs and do 8-9k+ dps.

    Its actually a more survivable / sustainable spec than ranged specs, unless you have sufficient space to kite whatever you're fighting to death.

    61 pt Assassin is what I used to solo the rift at the end of the Torvan Hunters questline before you get the great hunt dailys... the one with a million hp boss mob that hits for 1-3k a pop.

    It may be a different experience at lower levels, but I've always found 'sin to be quite the potent solo spec.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

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