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Thread: Rogue Tanks - how do you feel?

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    Ascendant
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    Default Rogue Tanks - how do you feel?

    As title. I've always loved tanking on Riftstalker but it's never been seen seriously by anyone I've played with, so it's basically been relegated to previous-tier content. The only time I've been able to play Riftstalker at present-level content is back when chocolate Rift experts were hard and GSB/ROS/DH/GP were the main progression tier (with HK but where nobody could really do much in it) ... and Riftstalker was pretty gimp then.

    How do you feel now? I felt wonderful in normal dungeons but having just entered Experts... not so much. Is it just tough for everyone, am I sucking (very possible; my gear is pretty entry level. 46k HP or so in 61rs/8tac/7rng), or do you feel Rogue needs more of a buff?

    Any rogues been tanking the new 10man/20mans? Do you think rogue has a legitimate chance of being chosen for tanking over cleric and warrior? I see there is a big warrior tank buff coming in 2.1 (and if they are truly behind in mitigation then that is fine), but does it mean we're going to be relegated to obscurity again?

    Etc, etc. I personally really love Rogue as a whole in SL and I feel that Riftstalker is very nearly perfect - it lost a lot of its complexity with changes at 50 but I feel it's very busy again at 60. I do miss Shadow Warp though...
    Raenryong@Deepwood R69 ~ Amathys@Zaviel (Rogue)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    As title. I've always loved tanking on Riftstalker but it's never been seen seriously by anyone I've played with, so it's basically been relegated to previous-tier content. The only time I've been able to play Riftstalker at present-level content is back when chocolate Rift experts were hard and GSB/ROS/DH/GP were the main progression tier (with HK but where nobody could really do much in it) ... and Riftstalker was pretty gimp then.

    How do you feel now? I felt wonderful in normal dungeons but having just entered Experts... not so much. Is it just tough for everyone, am I sucking (very possible; my gear is pretty entry level. 46k HP or so in 61rs/8tac/7rng), or do you feel Rogue needs more of a buff?

    Any rogues been tanking the new 10man/20mans? Do you think rogue has a legitimate chance of being chosen for tanking over cleric and warrior? I see there is a big warrior tank buff coming in 2.1 (and if they are truly behind in mitigation then that is fine), but does it mean we're going to be relegated to obscurity again?

    Etc, etc. I personally really love Rogue as a whole in SL and I feel that Riftstalker is very nearly perfect - it lost a lot of its complexity with changes at 50 but I feel it's very busy again at 60. I do miss Shadow Warp though...
    honestly for me, and this is just me im pretty sure, ive tanked most major raid content as a rogue tank.. and rogue tanks died for me with the introduction of Deflect, and not because of deflect.. but because they nerfed evasion tankin :S on that patch alone i lost 30% avoidance... and on this one, ive lost a further 12, im only 53 atm as i had work commitments and was un-able to play for the past 2months... and while i admit thats just plain shockin ":P i only hav 16% dodge n 5% parry.. and a meisly 43.45% deflect with almost full infero tank stuffs... rogues dont mitigate dmg FFS... we avoid it :S


    we avoid it.. thats the WHOLE reason anyone plays a rogue tank over a warrior... if were just mitigation, re-roll a warrior n u will be better at it, and WTF is with tanks self healin so much now.. take that **** away, give us more avoidance/mitigation, and let the healers heal the dps dps and the tanks tank...

    end rant :S hopefully semi on topic

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Riftstalkers have the best survivability out of any tank right now, due to our extremely high EH and our abundance of cooldowns. I expect a nerf any day now.

    The only thing where we're lacking is picking up adds at range, and that's only an issue on Overseer Cowel in Tower of the Shattered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avadiator View Post
    honestly for me, and this is just me im pretty sure, ive tanked most major raid content as a rogue tank.. and rogue tanks died for me with the introduction of Deflect, and not because of deflect.. but because they nerfed evasion tankin :S on that patch alone i lost 30% avoidance... and on this one, ive lost a further 12, im only 53 atm as i had work commitments and was un-able to play for the past 2months... and while i admit thats just plain shockin ":P i only hav 16% dodge n 5% parry.. and a meisly 43.45% deflect with almost full infero tank stuffs... rogues dont mitigate dmg FFS... we avoid it :S


    we avoid it.. thats the WHOLE reason anyone plays a rogue tank over a warrior... if were just mitigation, re-roll a warrior n u will be better at it, and WTF is with tanks self healin so much now.. take that **** away, give us more avoidance/mitigation, and let the healers heal the dps dps and the tanks tank...

    end rant :S hopefully semi on topic
    Evasion tanking is strictly inferior to mitigation tanking in any content with non-trivial damage (which is all of the new content), because it's highly inconsistent and leads to you taking massive, unpredictable damage spikes. Prior to Infernal Dawn, clerics were avoidance-based tanks, and they got absolutely wrecked on hard-hitting bosses.

    Rogues have never been avoidance-based tanks, at least in the year that I've played. We had exactly two talents that raised our avoidance at all, and one of them (False Blade) was removed in... 1.8, I think?

    The reduction of tank avoidance was a huge step in the right direction, because it made our damage intake a lot steadier and more predictable. I can't emphasize enough how much this helps your healers keep you alive.

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    Exactly. They didn't nerf evasion tanking, evasion tanking is a broken concept when you also have mitigation tanking. Clerics were really the evasion tanks not rogues (I never got why "we wear leather so we are evasion tanks" ever seemed logical) The amount of parry and dodge they could get was silly high. The problem is at some point you WILL fail an evasion check. To make evasion tanking not OP over mit tanking you need a lot less mit. When you then fail an evasion check you face plant.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Shield of Telara ptorretta's Avatar
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    I think we are in a good spot right now, the range aggro issue, i save a teleport for that, it makes it hard for melee players a but i use memory recall to teleport riht back.

    But that is how i handle that.

    I hope they do not Nerf, I agree we are a mit tank not avoidance, but it is hard for me to lose the 50% dodge for 15 second cool-down ... i know i will have to change but i just like it lol.

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    I feel the same way, have been rogue tanking since 1.3...granted dodge was higher before, look at it like this, EVERY healing trinket/essence useful to tanks (besides the clerics, because they can use trinkets/essence that require a heal to proc), requires deflect,parry or block, before it was just parry and parry didn't scale well for rogues...now a warrior/cleric parry = rogue dodge and block = deflect....rogues are in great place and hands down, are just sick a** tanks. I tank more on my rogue than my cleric and warrior. No ranged AoE pulls like clerics/warriors, but we have the best aggro, put out stupid damage, and look cool doing it. Have had a few players just getting into rogue tanking tell me that they want to get to the same skill level as myself.(drop a capture, grab a room and port back before any1 can move from their spot, do some crazy dps and run and grab more!

    Trion pls leave rogues where they are...thanks
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    Your out of you league here Fritz. any 8 bit hacker knows that only prepubescent girls with self esteem issues put up avatar picks of trolls and strut around forums like a tactless moron. your mothers a ***** and your father smelled of elderberries you masochistic malevolent!!!

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptorretta View Post
    I think we are in a good spot right now, the range aggro issue, i save a teleport for that, it makes it hard for melee players a but i use memory recall to teleport riht back.

    But that is how i handle that.

    I hope they do not Nerf, I agree we are a mit tank not avoidance, but it is hard for me to lose the 50% dodge for 15 second cool-down ... i know i will have to change but i just like it lol.
    Side Steps is not the issue. Soul Coalescence, on the other hand, is a balance disaster on any fight with predictable burst.

    If we had had access to that prior to Storm Legion, it would have made rogues the best tanks on almost every raid boss with heavy tank damage, by trivializing everything from Moldering Decay to Word of Incineration.

    It needs to be nerfed at minimum, and removing it outright would be better still. Hell, even the addition of Planebound Aegis was probably too much.
    Last edited by Muspel; 11-29-2012 at 10:09 AM.

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    Superior to warrior tanks in almost every way. Comparable to cleric if slightly behind.

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    Shield of Telara ptorretta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Side Steps is not the issue. Soul Coalescence, on the other hand, is a balance disaster on any fight with predictable burst.

    If we had had access to that prior to Storm Legion, it would have made rogues the best tanks on almost every raid boss with heavy tank damage, by trivializing everything from Moldering Decay to Word of Incineration.

    It needs to be nerfed at minimum, and removing it outright would be better still. Hell, even the addition of Planebound Aegis was probably too much.
    Muspel,

    I know Soul Coalescence is an awesome talent, as is Planebound Aegis, I rely on them, but i was speaking of droppng 7 in BD for 7 in Tactician for the Direct 3% damage mitigation, and the talents in Tact that go with it.

    I think right now as i run tank or support most of the time, we are slightly behind the clerics not by much but i think once they fix warrior mitigation all the tanking is fine.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptorretta View Post
    Muspel,

    I know Soul Coalescence is an awesome talent, as is Planebound Aegis, I rely on them, but i was speaking of droppng 7 in BD for 7 in Tactician for the Direct 3% damage mitigation, and the talents in Tact that go with it.

    I think right now as i run tank or support most of the time, we are slightly behind the clerics not by much but i think once they fix warrior mitigation all the tanking is fine.
    You shouldn't even consider a tanking spec without Tact. Here's the order you should rank the subsouls for tanking:

    Tactician
    Ranger
    Bard
    Bladedancer

    This is pretty much set in stone.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 11-29-2012 at 11:19 AM.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara ptorretta's Avatar
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    Like i said i know that ... but i love 50% dodge, its a fun talent, the line of miss is great ... I am a CD junkie, for every major spike damage i have a CD for it.

    The Dodge fails and I am one dead ranger ...
    Last edited by ptorretta; 11-29-2012 at 11:33 AM.

    Commander of The Watch (http://thewatch.enjin.com)
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    You shouldn't even consider a tanking spec without Tact. Here's the order you should rank the subsouls for tanking:

    Tactician
    Ranger
    Bard
    Bladedancer

    This is pretty much set in stone.
    Wrong. Ranger and bard are both superior to tactitian. Check out the last page or two of my tanking guide for some of the discussion surrounding this (particularly this post).

    8RNG/7Bard and 8RNG/7BD are the only subspecs worth running at the moment, and even the second one is fairly questionable considering how much burst damage you'll encounter in experts.
    Last edited by Muspel; 11-29-2012 at 12:23 PM.

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    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    You shouldn't even consider a tanking spec without Tact. Here's the order you should rank the subsouls for tanking:

    Tactician
    Ranger
    Bard
    Bladedancer

    This is pretty much set in stone.
    Incorrect. Have you actually tanked any SL end-game content yet? Easy-mode 5 and 10 man dungeons don't count.
    Last edited by Zazen; 11-29-2012 at 12:33 PM.

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    I feel that nb/rs (tank spec)is the only viable build for melee rogues pvp ,and 99,99% of melee rogues use this combo.It is sad that Trion manage to give rogues only so few choice to be successful as a melee rogue in pvp...

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saia View Post
    I feel that nb/rs (tank spec)is the only viable build for melee rogues pvp ,and 99,99% of melee rogues use this combo.It is sad that Trion manage to give rogues only so few choice to be successful as a melee rogue in pvp...
    This is an issue with melee in general, not rogues. Currently, damage in PvP is much too high.

    I shudder to think of how bad Conquest will be.

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