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Thread: Best Way to Apply Lethal in a Raid

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default Best Way to Apply Lethal in a Raid

    So I've been trying to figure out the best way to apply the 5% crit debuff in a raid. Melee friendly encounters are easy, just play assassin for lethal poison. For melee unfriendly fights the best I've come up with is:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/b...AAAAG4/ykw4/w8

    Has anyone found anything better or maybe had success using a different class?
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

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  2. #2
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    I'd probably give 20 sin a try for a lethal poison build.

    You're welcome.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Wut...

    Anyways, here are the numbers I'm hitting:
    44-32 8.5k
    61mm 7.6k
    51mm-20sin-5nb 7.5k

    So it's not too much of a dps hit.
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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Now here is a question. yes in a bleeding edge chasing server first guild you may well say "this is a melee unfriendly fight...Bob suck it up and run 51 MM/20sin." However 90% of the guilds just want to kill the content hopefully before the next raid zone gets introduced. Is lethal really that huge a deal for the majority of the guilds? Yeah it's 5% crit and we took a fairly sizeable hit to crit across the board. That said it is only 5% so the argument could be made both ways.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Not sure, but the dps check is what 140k or so for the first boss in the 20 person raid? So 5% crit should be 2.5-3% extra damage so that's maybe 3k damage. If one person takes a 3k hit it'll probably be worth it.

    If you're in a casual guild I'd think it's more important to min-max rather then less. If the players aren't playing optimized specs and their rotations aren't as tight they're more likely to need the extra dps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Now here is a question. yes in a bleeding edge chasing server first guild you may well say "this is a melee unfriendly fight...Bob suck it up and run 51 MM/20sin." However 90% of the guilds just want to kill the content hopefully before the next raid zone gets introduced. Is lethal really that huge a deal for the majority of the guilds? Yeah it's 5% crit and we took a fairly sizeable hit to crit across the board. That said it is only 5% so the argument could be made both ways.
    The dps checks on the Frozen Tempest raid are not something that you can take too lightly. You start raiding with really bad gear and the bosses will kick your butt if you don't optimize your raid setup as much as you can.

    If your raid is doing 150k dps then Lethal Poison is worth around 4k. Of course it depends a bit on specs, how much crit power your members have and so on. If you don't have it then you are gimping yourself and will progress slower. In fact it's even more important for the less hardcore guilds since the best guilds could usually push the required dps even without it. There is a big difference between a 1% wipe and a kill.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Hmmmm. I guess I just never really saw the dps checks being that hard. I did a fair bit of mercing until I finally settled on just raiding casually. I heard the "ZOMG Murdantix has a dps check from heck." Not really. Same with Ituziel....sorta. His dps check was hard, until you found the one wall spot where you barely had to move. Of course there we can argue what was the WAI method there. Sicaron etc

    It just seems thus far that the dps checks in the game all have a built it strat to minimize it. Just a matter of using experimentation and out thinking the fight rather than falling into the trap of trying to purely out muscle it.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    We're more casual as well. We have some players who hit SL very hardcore though but we still couldn't clear the 10 man our first go through, we couldn't meet the dps check on the 3rd boss in the 10 man. With another week's gear we cleared the 10 man this/last week but are now not meeting the dps check in the 20 man raid first boss.

    I don't think it's so much an issue of the dps checks being overly difficult but it's that not everyone is well geared. No one in guild has their 4 piece expert gear bonus so the raids are not intended to be able to be cleared. In a situation where you aren't waiting for full expert gear bonuses or BiS from experts you're going to need all the dps you can get.

    Going into ID and HK most players had BiS or close to BiS from the previous tier so the dps checks weren't an issue (for us at least). A better situation to relate this one to would be GSB at launch.
    Last edited by Mayi; 11-28-2012 at 04:47 AM.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Oh I get the gear thing. I am just VERY methodical about stuff like that. I am that guy who at meetings is always saying "why are we doing A and then C? We should be doing A, B and then C." Yeah I am that guy lol.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  10. #10
    Rift Master Ymirson's Avatar
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    A) Invite a warrior.
    B) Make him use Mark of (forgot the name).
    C) Profit
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  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Sharpshooter's Avatar
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    I was running this build for about a week+ . With the difference that in my build I was using Decoy and Chain Destruction.
    The build is parsing on a dummy in the area of 8-8.6k with a mix of tank and dps expert gear depending on the luck with crit rate.
    Last edited by Sharpshooter; 11-28-2012 at 07:15 AM.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymirson View Post
    A) Invite a warrior.
    B) Make him use Mark of (forgot the name).
    C) Profit
    Mark of extermination is fairly deep in Champ if I am not mistaken so on boss fights you may not see it a lot now since champ is now firmly an AoE centric soul.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  13. #13
    Rift Master Ymirson's Avatar
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    Ah, my bad, it used to be at 6 or 12, around that, in Champ.

    EDIT:
    Ahat about the Archon? Doesn't he have the same crit debuff?
    Last edited by Ymirson; 11-28-2012 at 12:09 PM.
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  14. #14
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymirson View Post
    Ah, my bad, it used to be at 6 or 12, around that, in Champ.

    EDIT:
    Ahat about the Archon? Doesn't he have the same crit debuff?
    The three in the group were Lethal Poison, Mark of Extermination, and Luminous Gaze. Luminous Gaze is no longer a thing (and never really was a fantastic option), Mark of Extermination is in deep Champ, leaving Lethal Poison as the most viable contender.

    Given Crit Power (including the bonus from the Crit Power banner) as well uptime on crit procs that some specs receive, it seems like a thing you'd want to work in if you're trying to maximize raid DPS. And give the reduced impact of Crit Rating and corresponding drop in base Crit %, the +% raid buffs/debuffs look particularly attractive.

  15. #15
    Rift Master Luteuel's Avatar
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    I forget, can lethal be spread to multiple mobs by say Fan out or Chain of destruction? if not, Chemical bomb is a good way to get lethal up on multiple mobs in a hurry.

    I did that for the laethys fight.
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