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Thread: Rogue DPS Builds (AND MACROS!)

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Rogue DPS Builds (AND MACROS!)

    Hey all. Just wondering if there was a list of builds for level 50+ DPS builds?

    Macros are the important part, IMO

    Thank you
    Last edited by Thomasx; 11-20-2012 at 02:32 PM.
    Thomasx - 50 Rogue
    Fennecfox - 50 Warrior

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomasx View Post
    Hey all. Just wondering if there was a list of builds for level 50+ DPS builds?

    Macros are the important part, IMO

    Thank you
    Check out the Rogue Guides forum here.

    Also i disagree with your assertion on the important part of a guide. A thorough explanation of the role, rotation, its applicability and execution are substantially more important than macros.
    Last edited by Zazen; 11-20-2012 at 03:18 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    Also i disagree with your assertion on the important part of a guide. A thorough explanation of the role, rotation, its applicability and execution are substantially more important than macros.
    Not to mention the fact that many specs will perform much better without any macros.

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    Ascendant Hodor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    Check out the Rogue Guides forum here.

    Also i disagree with your assertion on the important part of a guide. A thorough explanation of the role, rotation, its applicability and execution are substantially more important than macros.
    although, macros are great training wheels to new people. they also show builder/ability priority and help someone get a feel to a spec. later on when they feel comfortable they can reduce the usage of macros. unfortunately many "guides" are nothing more then a link to a spec, leaving new rogues scratching their heads heh.

    to them i would recommend leaving your act parser on to see what abilities people are using, can help you reverse engineer when the "guide" isn't really a "guide".

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsurfing View Post
    although, macros are great training wheels to new people. they also show builder/ability priority and help someone get a feel to a spec. later on when they feel comfortable they can reduce the usage of macros. .
    Really should go the other way. When you become second nature fluent in a class, then you can start setting up macro's because you are well aware of priority and what is truly appropriate to macro for your usage. If you start with macros you may never learn the better intricacies of playing a soul unless you break down the macros and learn the rhyme and reason.

    But then again copying someone elses macro near blindly makes me sad. It's just a vidya game. Learn it ~
    Last edited by Violacea; 11-20-2012 at 07:20 PM.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Really should go the other way. When you become second nature fluent in a class, then you can start setting up macro's because you are well aware of priority and what is truly appropriate to macro for your usage. If you start with macros you may never learn the better intricacies of playing a soul unless you break down the macros and learn the rhyme and reason.

    But then again copying someone elses macro near blindly makes me sad. It's just a vidya game. Learn it ~
    Exactly.

    While there are a few cases where macroing abilities together won't inhibit learning a new spec (ie Phantom Blow+Planar Strike), they're the exception, rather than the rule.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    I always find it funny when people bash players that use macros. I've used macros the whole time and it has never hurt my DPS (normally close to top DPS in raids). Most people will say that it's much lower but I've always seen maybe a 10-25 difference in DPS. If I can use a macro to make the build easier/much more enjoyable then I will sacrifice the 10-25 DPS. I make my own macros to suit my play style so I do know my class and I know what works best and how to macro effectively. Bottom line, if you don't like macros don't use them but don't discredit people that do. It's a game, play it the way you want to.

    Ozik

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozik View Post
    I always find it funny when people bash players that use macros. I've used macros the whole time and it has never hurt my DPS (normally close to top DPS in raids). Most people will say that it's much lower but I've always seen maybe a 10-25 difference in DPS. If I can use a macro to make the build easier/much more enjoyable then I will sacrifice the 10-25 DPS. I make my own macros to suit my play style so I do know my class and I know what works best and how to macro effectively. Bottom line, if you don't like macros don't use them but don't discredit people that do. It's a game, play it the way you want to.

    Ozik
    The problem with macros is that they limit your understanding of the rotation, which means that when you mess things up or the fight forces you out of your normal rotation, you won't know what to do.

    For instance, let's say you're playing Bladedancer, and a boss forces you to stop your rotation for long enough that your offhand attack is no longer enabled. If you're at 3 combo points, do you know what to do next for optimal DPS? Do you know how to adjust your dance rotation for any potential fight mechanics? If you use Precision Strike twice by accident, what's the right course of action?

    Being a competent raider is about understanding what you're doing and why you're doing it. When you know the priority for your abilities, and the reasons why those things are the way that they are, you're better able to adapt to the situation. And that will make you a much, much more effective player.

    I'm generally the top DPS rogue in my raid group. Not because the rotation is hard and I'm the only one that can do it, but because I understand it well enough that I can tweak it for any number of situations and eke out that extra bit of DPS. I know the priorities and the abilities well enough that I can do them while dealing with any number of mechanics without losing damage output. If you're just following a strict rotation, you're not going to be able to do that as easily.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Like I said, I agree there will be a small DPS loss but is that big of a deal? If you're a competent raider you will know how to react to the situation that you're thrown in. I don't care how good you are sometimes **** is going to happen and your rotation will be thrown off whether your macroing or just single hitting abilities. In the long haul of the fight it's not going to make too much a difference overall that you screwed up a rotation here and there. There are plenty of specs that don't require macros and people screw up the rotations on those too so It's pretty safe to say that no one will perform the perfect rotation every fight and react perfectly to each situation. Most people probably can't even tell when someone is using a macro. If you make good macros it will be transparent to others. If you are macroing abilities that are drastically lowering your DPS, then you're doing it wrong.

    Ozik

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozik View Post
    Like I said, I agree there will be a small DPS loss but is that big of a deal? If you're a competent raider you will know how to react to the situation that you're thrown in. I don't care how good you are sometimes **** is going to happen and your rotation will be thrown off whether your macroing or just single hitting abilities. In the long haul of the fight it's not going to make too much a difference overall that you screwed up a rotation here and there. There are plenty of specs that don't require macros and people screw up the rotations on those too so It's pretty safe to say that no one will perform the perfect rotation every fight and react perfectly to each situation. Most people probably can't even tell when someone is using a macro. If you make good macros it will be transparent to others. If you are macroing abilities that are drastically lowering your DPS, then you're doing it wrong.

    Ozik
    It's not just a DPS loss, it's a loss of awareness and adaptability. It's making you a worse player.

    If you know how to do a rotation, and you can think of a macro that makes it easier, then fine. Use it. I do that myself with some builds. But if you're using a macro without knowing why then you're doing it wrong, and many of the macros that I see in various guides are suboptimal to begin with, or introduce macro lag into a rotation that's already absurdly simple (like people who macro Swift Shot to Empowered Shot).

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozik View Post
    Like I said, I agree there will be a small DPS loss but is that big of a deal? If you're a competent raider you will know how to react to the situation that you're thrown in. I don't care how good you are sometimes **** is going to happen and your rotation will be thrown off whether your macroing or just single hitting abilities. In the long haul of the fight it's not going to make too much a difference overall that you screwed up a rotation here and there. There are plenty of specs that don't require macros and people screw up the rotations on those too so It's pretty safe to say that no one will perform the perfect rotation every fight and react perfectly to each situation. Most people probably can't even tell when someone is using a macro. If you make good macros it will be transparent to others. If you are macroing abilities that are drastically lowering your DPS, then you're doing it wrong.

    Ozik
    I think you are both dancing around the same idea. As long as you understand exactly what your macros do, they are fine and can increase performance when constructed properly, this was even true for mages pre-1.11. The problem is many people who use guides copy/paste macros and don't even know what powers they have, nevermind how they should be used. I am of the opinion example macros should still be given, if they don't make an effort to understand the abilities used they probably weren't going to anyway.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 11-21-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    I think you are both dancing around the same idea. As long as you understand exactly what your macros do, they are fine and can increase performance when constructed properly, this was even true for mages pre-1.11. The problem is many people who use guides copy/paste macros and don't even know what powers they have, nevermind how they should be used. I am of the opinion example macros should still be given, if they don't make an effort to understand the abilities used they probably weren't going to anyway.
    It's worth noting, though, that rogue specs tend to benefit a lot less from macros than other callings (particularly warriors, from the specs I've tried on my alt), and that because of our shorter GCD, macro lag is worse for us than for the rest.

    I haven't really tested out Nightblade or Saboteur yet, so I can't speak for them, but for every other soul I've played since 1.11, there aren't even any cases where macros would really help in any meaningful way, given that the cooldowns have been removed from abilities like Splinter Shot and Precision Strike.

    Riftstalker being the exception, of course. Even then, the only reason they're really useful there is because it saves you a keybind or two, and RS needs a TON of keybinds.
    Last edited by Muspel; 11-21-2012 at 10:56 AM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    It's worth noting, though, that rogue specs tend to benefit a lot less from macros than other callings (particularly warriors, from the specs I've tried on my alt), and that because of our shorter GCD, macro lag is worse for us than for the rest.

    I haven't really tested out Nightblade or Saboteur yet, so I can't speak for them, but for every other soul I've played since 1.11, there aren't even any cases where macros would really help in any meaningful way, given that the cooldowns have been removed from abilities like Splinter Shot and Precision Strike.

    Riftstalker being the exception, of course. Even then, the only reason they're really useful there is because it saves you a keybind or two, and RS needs a TON of keybinds.
    True enough, my rogue is not yet 50 but there is a lack of macroability reminiscent of mage specs. I was able to make a few macros on my Bard spec but it still uses almost as many keybinds as my Archon. Riftstalker is honestly very similar to the macroability of Justicar and most Warrior specs at the moment, there's usually only one "spam" attack with a cooldown in any of these, and AoE needs to be managed more carefully. I did set up an AoE spam macro with cast [notactive] Planar Splash that is working pretty well for me however ;)

    Just started trying out Saboteur, while almost everything has a cooldown it seems rather odd to macro things as everything has a different usage. I'm still a little overwhelmed by the amount of abilities though
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 11-21-2012 at 11:04 AM.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    For builds with a lot of abilities to be hotkeyed i use a macro like these

    #show motif of regeneration
    Suppressmacrofailures
    Cast [ctrl] motif of bravery
    Cast [alt] motif of the other one
    Cast motif of regeneration

    Same kind of macro for the defensive ones for riftstalker. Just have to memorize which modifier to hit, and can cut down your number of hotkey slots by up to two thirds.

    This only works if you are using a keybind similar to http://taugrim.com/2011/04/07/guide-...d-keybindings/

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Rootyy's Avatar
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    I don't think many guides will be posted up of our DPS specs, mostly because:

    A. We've had a history of good builds being nerfed when we post them (1.5/1.6).
    B. For the most part our best builds aren't too different from pre-2.0 builds. (with the exception of certain tactician builds, which have amazing guides in the guide forum. As for Tac being a subsoul, anybody with half a brain can figure out where tac is good to use as a subsoul)
    C. Not too many people are happy with their gear to feel accomplished with their numbers through thorough testing. Wait until people get 4-piece raid gear/crystals.

    Your best bet is to go test on the dummy. Explore.
    Last edited by Rootyy; 11-25-2012 at 01:44 PM.
    Rootyy@Greybriar <Too Many Buttons>
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