Are either of the BiS lists (either Qan's or the Upgrade Planner) updated for 1.11 yet, or are there any alternatives out there that represent the new changes?

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- 10-31-2012 03:57 PM #1
## BiS List

Are either of the BiS lists (either Qan's or the Upgrade Planner) updated for 1.11 yet, or are there any alternatives out there that represent the new changes?

- 10-31-2012 04:59 PM #2
Qan quit.

Lyx has http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ence-list.html

- 10-31-2012 06:26 PM #3

- 10-31-2012 08:59 PM #4

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I've personally just made my own spreadsheet and used a ratio of 2AP : 0.65CRIT

Qan's list used a ratio of 2 : 1 when below soft crit cap and 2 : 0.2 (or 10 : 1) when above soft crit cap. This came from the fact that Crit rating became 1/5 as useful when above the crit cap. Since every Rogue was fine and dandy with how he created his spreadsheet, doing so by applying these modified weights shouldn't be cause for alarm.

I'm not really sure of whether the new conversion of AP -> wDPS (if there was one?) so seeing as how we're back to being below crit cap you can start from the basis of 2 : 1.

I adjusted the weight of Crit just by looking how how Crit in general has become less potent than it was before 1.11. I've also completely ignored how Crit Power could potentially weigh in favor of Crit. I got the 0.65 by comparing the pre-1.11 %Crit/Crit Rating ratio to the one we have now.

Code:Before 1.11 45% / 1187 Rating = 0.0379% / Rating After 1.11 45% / 1794 Rating = 0.0251% / Rating New Weight = Old Weight * (New Ratio / Old Ratio) = Old Weight * 0.65

SCORE = AP*2 + CRIT*0.65

This of course takes into account how STR/DEX is affected by Resonance and how it converts to AP and CRIT respectively.

That gives you a base score that you can further increase its magnitude by multiplying it by a summation of percentage factors. Doing this really is pointless in my opinion as you're going to have a hard time finding an piece of gear that is BiS for one spec and not for another spec (perhaps excluding trinkets and even then we've seen how volatile the results are). The difference in total AP values from various high-end pieces of gear isn't large enough for that to happen and I have tried it in my spreadsheet. The hierarchy of pieces doesn't change if you apply the factors so all you are doing is inflating the score. You can see evidence of this in Qan's spreadsheet as well.Last edited by Vitto; 10-31-2012 at 09:01 PM.

- 10-31-2012 09:35 PM #5

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if anyone wants to help me out I can take the same set up qan had and make a new bis list for storm legion. I think taking the new AP percentages from above I can start working on it, but I honestly don't know how we are gojnf to handle crit power

- 10-31-2012 10:00 PM #6

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Well I certainly don't have the desire to create a good looking spreadsheet full of colors and the sort. I certainly don't want to keep it updated so someone can certainly take the reign on that.

One way to handle Crit Power (granted it is possible to achieve the required ratings) is to create separate columns based on your Crit Power:

Code:1.5x 1.6x 1.7x 1.8x 1.9x 2.0x

Code:SCORE = 2*AP + 1.1*(CRIT*0.65)

(Crit Multiplier Bonus / Crit Power Rating)

Call that ratio**P**

Code:SCORE = 2*AP + [1+(

**P***C.PowerRating)]*CRIT*0.65

- 10-31-2012 10:17 PM #7

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Sorry the above way is probably a bad way to handle Crit Power once we get above the soft cap. Crit Power wouldn't become less valuable because you are at cap. After that point some way of creating a separate term for Crit Power would be a better idea.

- 10-31-2012 11:01 PM #8
Anyone with the proper background in the math involved in calculating optimization between three variables (ap/sp, crit, crit power) will eventually arrive at the realization that a spreadsheet listing of gear and ranking is going to be completely useless and essentially trash.

The rest of you are just going to have to take our word for it.So long, and thanks for all the fish~

- 10-31-2012 11:20 PM #9
Basically this. I've been dealing with similar problems for a Mage BiS, and there are two methods of dealing with it: disregard crit power and use the old two-variable system (that can be flatly optimized), or do not use a ranked list and instead use an upgrade calculator that accounts for existing conditions (making the 3-variable system solvable)

The first method is actually surprisingly effective if the relative value of crit power is low (in the range of 26+ rating per percent) the second is more effective at the level 50 conversion factors (for mages it's 7 cp per %, not sure if rogues are different)

For the purposes of an upgrade calculator, 1% crit power is weighted equal to your current crit chance % In decimal form. The piece being compared should use the crit chance % after modifiers for the other stats on the gear. (PM me if you want the math, its a bit complex)Last edited by Araenn; 10-31-2012 at 11:20 PM.

**Windstorm - Mage - Faeblight US**

Hi, I'm back!

Faeblight since CB3

- 10-31-2012 11:39 PM #10

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I'm think that just sticking to the AP/crit rating may be the best way, and just list the crit power amid let the players decide. I will look into more when I get off work and see what I can come up with.

if anyone wants to help out with this project let me know, once I get a rough draft of a spreadsheet I will post up the link for everyone

- 11-01-2012 01:20 AM #11
Crit power will become a must-have alongside with crit chance, we really only need an AP list to use after caps happen at crit department.

- 11-01-2012 04:01 AM #12I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

- 11-01-2012 05:25 AM #13

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is anyone here in contact with Qan? I was going to use his BiS spreadsheet as an outline, but I kinda wanted his permission first. I can't send him a pm on the forums

- 11-01-2012 07:08 AM #14

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Well this is hardly optimization but it is a certain method of quantifying value. Unless we got the equation (or someone spent the time to figure out the equation) for every abilities damage then you can't perfectly optimize without making too many assumptions. The BiS List before 1.11 and the pseudo one I've made is just a list where we've thrown arbitrary values to stats and weighted them. Regardless, the mental process you or any other player goes through when deciding if a piece of gear is an upgrade is probably:

1. See how much stats I gain/lose

2. Determine if it is worth switching from current piece to new piece

3. If the difference is really small you think a little harder

4. You come to some conclusion based on reasoning.

If you didn't flip a coin to decide which piece to use then that "reasoning" is you've attached your own values to the stats you're considering. Doing a gear score is in essence no different but it makes sure that "reasoning" section remains constant and isn't subject to the situation at hand. Whether that is a better way to evaluate a piece of gear is up to the user. There is no confidence interval with these numbers because there is no mathematical reasoning behind how a piece of gear gets a score. So, it's far easier for you to say that this is useless rather than me saying its useful. All of this is just arbitrary numbers being back up by arbitrary reasoning. However I'm sure you know how benchmarking products can be very arbitrary or very scientific depending on the scope and depth, and that benchmarking products is an important tool in getting started for some projects.

- 11-01-2012 07:12 AM #15

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...V9qMHdGWEtvSXc

work in progress using qans set up

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