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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Riftstalker Feedback (1.11)

  1. #16
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    I kind of like the idea of rift stalker being an offtank/temp tank then switching to decent dps. seems like a very good direction.
    I strongly dislike the idea of being pigeonholed into an offtank/temporary tank role.

    Fortunately, Constant Deviation will, at best, make up for the damage that you're losing from Rift Barrier because you're not getting smacked in the face. So they're actually NOT going in that direction at all.
    Last edited by Muspel; 10-16-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  2.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    I kind of like the idea of rift stalker being an offtank/temp tank then switching to decent dps. seems like a very good direction.
    Riftstalkers can main tank like any other tanks. They are not designated offtanks.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailion View Post
    Riftstalkers can main tank like any other tanks. They are not designated offtanks.
    AHH Catch him!!, need some dialog about starvation, why dmg is soo abysmal in both pvp and pve, why cant we really get 30m for bard??

  4. #19
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    AHH Catch him!!, need some dialog about starvation, why dmg is soo abysmal in both pvp and pve, why cant we really get 30m for bard??
    Please do not derail this thread with things that have absolutely no relation to the topic at hand.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Please do not derail this thread with things that have absolutely no relation to the topic at hand.
    You forgot that fact that it is horribly misinformed as well!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    I've considered this but there's implications in PvE as well. If you know you are about to take a 10k hit you can switch to Mien of Leadership/Guardian Phase then turn it back off to get healed up easier.
    Wouldn't cooldowns solve that?

  7. #22
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    In 1.11, the HP difference between a tank in guardian phase and stalker phase is minimal. On the order of maybe 2k hp. The great majority of the hp boost percentages were worked into the talents and passives that were built into the soul itself instead of the guardian phase buff... so swapping it around shouldn't be an issue provided your RS tank remembers to put guardian phase back on before taunting.

    ---
    The planar rejuvenation is ridiculously useless. You would take more damage than it heals from -normal- mobs, never mind raid mobs and bosses. The only reason people would have it at all is because of the per-point spent scaling passive. The talent may as well not exist, and no one would notice the difference.

    ---
    The dps talents deep in the rs tree feels like they were never meant for dps hybrids, but meant for some additional dps contributed by the rs tank when not tanking. That's the only reason I can see for all those talents being buried so deep in the tree.

    Also, you gain a stack when you generate the 5th CP... you don't necessarily need to waste CPs trying to stack that damage buff.
    Last edited by MoonfireSpam; 10-16-2012 at 04:41 PM.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  8. #23
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    +1 to Ailion, his design for RS is fine. due to the way the passives work, switching out of guardian phase will not drop your hp dramatically.

  9. #24
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    I actually like Rogue tanking a lot more in 1.11. I admit I'm don't tank current content (t3) raids, but I do tank for dungeons and T1, T2 raids, etc.

    Planar Splash & Wrath of the Planes: This is wonderful. Yes, I understand that Planar Vortex is already an AoE threat generator, but that's completely passive. You blink into a pack of mobs, Guarded Steel, maybe Rift Disturbance... then what? You basically sit there until Planar Vortex wears off and refresh with a blink.

    With Planar Splash and Wrath of the Planes, I have something to do while waiting for Vortex to drop e.g. generate additional threat so I can move onto the next pack. On Live, chain pulling on a Rogue means you have to run ahead & blink quickly from group to group, get aggro on all of them before DPS / heals get there. With this, Blink, do 5 CP + Wrath and then blink to the next group without worrying about aggro (like warriors can).

    The additional threat spread out to all mobs allows me to use my blinks to pull the next group instead of using them to maintain threat on the current group.

    And there's one more important thing about threat maintenance. When you Blink, you have a chance to position mobs at awkward angles, sometimes getting melee cleaved or moving enough that melee has to reposition to resume DPS, which is generally a DPS loss.

    My only criticism is similar to what others have posted: the self heals are kinda weak, and I don't know if it'll make a difference in raids. Maybe the 4 pc crystal can reduce the cooldown of Planar Attraction?
    Last edited by Juxtaposed; 10-16-2012 at 04:50 PM.

  10. #25
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    The two main things I'd personally enjoy hearing explanations on are why guarded steel is now 10% instead of 30% to armor, and why, from a non-pvp standpoint, shadow warp needed to be taken out. the only explanation I heard them give over live stream was a pvp reason.
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  11. #26
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juxtaposed View Post
    I actually like Rogue tanking a lot more in 1.11. I admit I'm don't tank current content (t3) raids, but I do tank for dungeons and T1, T2 raids, etc.

    Planar Splash & Wrath of the Planes: This is wonderful. Yes, I understand that Planar Vortex is already an AoE threat generator, but that's completely passive. You blink into a pack of mobs, Guarded Steel, maybe Rift Disturbance... then what? You basically sit there until Planar Vortex wears off and refresh with a blink.

    With Planar Splash and Wrath of the Planes, I have something to do while waiting for Vortex to drop e.g. generate additional threat so I can move onto the next pack. On Live, chain pulling on a Rogue means you have to run ahead & blink quickly from group to group, get aggro on all of them before DPS / heals get there. With this, Blink, do 5 CP + Wrath and then blink to the next group without worrying about aggro (like warriors can).

    The additional threat spread out to all mobs allows me to use my blinks to pull the next group instead of using them to maintain threat on the current group.

    And there's one more important thing about threat maintenance. When you Blink, you have a chance to position mobs at awkward angles, sometimes getting melee cleaved or moving enough that melee has to reposition to resume DPS, which is generally a DPS loss.

    Sure, a good tank can avoid that, but it'll never be avoided 100% of the time. With Wrath of the Planes you can maintain threat without moving. (think Council in DD).

    My only criticism is similar to what others have posted: the self heals are kinda weak, and I don't know if it'll make a difference in raids. Maybe the 4 pc crystal can reduce the cooldown of Planar Attraction?
    The point muspel was trying to make, and what any veteran rogue tanks would likely agree on, is that AoE threat is literally on the bottom of the pile of rogue tanking issues.

    So much so that I did not comprehend the two additional mechanics that allowed us to do even more aoe threat gen.

    I've held threat vs sabs doing 10-12k aoe dps, warriors doing their 10k aoe dps, etc... and with the extra damage dealing talents buried in the new 1.11 rs soul, i don't see it ever being an issue even with additional aoe damage scaling on the part of the dps.

    Maybe its a preventative measure, but I view it as largely unnecessary.

    ... especially the new graphics for planar vortex :| I liked the old low-profile non-existant animation for it far better than something pulsing every second hitting 10 targets that can potentially generate fps issues sometime down the line.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  12. #27
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    The point muspel was trying to make, and what any veteran rogue tanks would likely agree on, is that AoE threat is literally on the bottom of the pile of rogue tanking issues.

    So much so that I did not comprehend the two additional mechanics that allowed us to do even more aoe threat gen.

    I've held threat vs sabs doing 10-12k aoe dps, warriors doing their 10k aoe dps, etc... and with the extra damage dealing talents buried in the new 1.11 rs soul, i don't see it ever being an issue even with additional aoe damage scaling on the part of the dps.

    Maybe its a preventative measure, but I view it as largely unnecessary.

    ... especially the new graphics for planar vortex :| I liked the old low-profile non-existant animation for it far better than something pulsing every second hitting 10 targets that can potentially generate fps issues sometime down the line.

    it probably was a preventive issue, since all calling are getting much more aoe abilities (though..rogue wont matter with their current dps numbers)

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asaomar View Post
    The two main things I'd personally enjoy hearing explanations on are why guarded steel is now 10% instead of 30% to armor, and why, from a non-pvp standpoint, shadow warp needed to be taken out. the only explanation I heard them give over live stream was a pvp reason.
    Regarding guarded steel... have you actually looked at the armor #'s?

    I'm sitting at about double the amount of armor on pts compared to live.

    When you think about how your run of the mill rogue tank is looking at 25k armor, the whole 10% v 30% armor buff on guarded steel thing seems to be very easily explained... and certainly a non-issue.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  14. #29
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    I do like the idea of being able to throw in a little DPS when not tanking something. It's a unique trait that rogues get that other classes do not. It does, however, pigeonhole us into being the preferred OT for that style of fight. It's good to know that Ailion will be keeping us as valid MT's though. I quit Rift for a while because I wanted to tank, but was taking lots more damage than a war, therefore was preferred as a DPS.

    I would like to have Planar Rejuvenation changed to be more useful though, it just doesn't rival the power of the 41pt talents of all the other tank specs from other classes. Maybe Planar Boost can increase the effect of heals by 1% and self heals by 10% per stack?

    Another thing that I noticed is the huge nerf to Guarded Steel. Not only the fact that it went from 30% down to 10%, but with the change in how armor works now, having it up only increases physical mitigation by about 0.4% (I cycled it out for Deadly Strike for 50% more damage and the Deadly Dance proc that BD naturally gets now).

  15. #30
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    it probably was a preventive issue, since all calling are getting much more aoe abilities (though..rogue wont matter with their current dps numbers)
    I've held threat off of Saboteurs doing 25k DPS on Akylios trash. Unless everyone is being buffed substantially beyond that, AoE threat will remain trivial.

    I literally cannot remember ever losing threat on any AoE pack that was in melee range of me unless I was too busy eating fritos to keep Planar Vortex up.

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