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Thread: Lack of Commuication again

  1. #16
    Rift Chaser Sharpshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crowgora211232 View Post
    If we are going by that logic, then lets say a rogue with ohhhhh about 6kish posts should be a better rogue than a rogue with lets say, 50 posts?
    There is a reason he is more active in this other forum, its because they people there are actually helpful, instead of spamming in cap locks OUR DPS IS BAD, WE NEED MOAR ENERGY! Post real feedback, post what is and isnt working in specs. Instead you guys are making pointless threads that are just going to be locked before he even punches in for work. GG.
    You don't need to imply much logic to understand that more communication is needed.
    Just read the class boards.
    A good dev does want to get feedback and I'm sure our feedback is very valuable to Aillion.
    However when feedback is provided it would be much better if we get some sort of confirmation and even better if we could make a dialogue.
    At the moment its working one way most of the time. It doesn't mean that its not working at all right now, but it could work alot better.
    Not everyone in the coommunity is posting in the style you described. Actually I think they are a minority by far.
    Alot of people are providing very informative feedback in several threads, yet these threads didn't get any official post.
    We can guess that things are working behind the scenes, but I prefer if we would need to do less guessing and just have a normal communication channel.
    We are not here to be against him. We want to help to imporove quality of life for our class and provide feeback about things which can make it happen.
    Sharp - Moirae - Icewatch - EU
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  2. #17
    Rift Chaser Sharpshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    Lets see, he had pretty much every soul/build zeroed in to the correct DPS before any of the other devs. There aren't really any massive game breaking bugs....
    Rogue souls are indeed less buggy than few warrior/mage specs which had some issues, but while we don't have issues we are limited to using BD and MM because the rest are energy starved.
    I might be exaggerating but thats how it looks to me so far. Feedback about these energy issues would be great.
    There are other questions which were raised but I think this one is the most major one currently and it got zero replies so far even thought there were calculations/practical test results posted.
    Sharp - Moirae - Icewatch - EU
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  3. #18
    Plane Touched Dominion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    He used to post here a lot more. Most of his posts resulted in him immediately being hammered by like 10 people. I'm not denying its a vicious circle and all that, but I kinda watched things develop to this point, and I am pretty sure that threads like this won't make it better.
    So there is a Carpenter, a Sander, a Nailer, and a Measurer. There job is to build a deck, and build it good so that the entire community can use those decks.

    It seems that the Carpenter, Sander and Nailer always do everything awesome, the Carpenter places them boards where they need to go, the Sander finishes off the boards so smooth you never get a splinter and the Nailer does such a good job the boards never come up. Although the the deck never gets done right, because the damn measurer keeps on cutting the damn boards to short.

    It's no wonder people get frustrated and hostile towards the Measurer, the hole community gets on the Measurer for crying outloud, the Measurer goes into hiding, instead of taking a look and fixing all them jacked up decks and all the boards he has shortchanged and all the cries for help and given assistance, the Measurer, the community can't find any completed or fixxed decks to look at to give positive feedback to the Measurer.

    We got some Dacked up Jecks.

  4. #19
    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    I would love to see him post on the forums more. Don't need to say anything just post ............ at least the rogue community knows he has been to the rogue forums and has seen the threads, probs had, what is working and what people as a whole feel is still broken. Lets be honest if rogues knew our feedback was getting to him then there would be much more feedback less QQing IMO.

    Think the point of this was to so that rogues know that he has seen what we think about his work as a whole. Instead seems post go ignored and nobody likes getting ignored (which prob isn't the case). Who cares about people whining on the forums cause our dev didn't break our class, "I want to be way to OP and will not stop complaining till you give it to me". Would I like to be even dps with a warrior/mage, sure, but once inc nerfs to them happen I am sure we will be close.

    Overall I like what he has done with 1.11, sure there are some issues that could be fixed but nothing like 8k dps specs that someone is looking foolish for even letting get to pts. But we have a decent range of specs and can mix and match with comparable dps so we get to run the specs we want to, which hasn't been the case in the past or the present for some classes. It was always this is your dps spec now it's on you to make the most out of it, GO.

  5. #20
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    Lets see, he had pretty much every soul/build zeroed in to the correct DPS before any of the other devs. There aren't really any massive game breaking bugs....
    Basically this.

    Don't get me wrong, I wish we heard from Ailion more often. But as it turns out, during the time that we were complaining about energy starvation to the point that Daglar stepped in, Ailion was working on Storm Legion (which hadn't yet been announced at that point).

    1.11 hits the PTS, and, what do you know, Ailion did good work. No, energy starvation isn't fixed, but DPS across the specs is remarkably well balanced considering that nothing had been tested publically yet.

    And, like Dunharrow said, the forum is incredibly hostile to him. If I were the rogue dev, I probably wouldn't post here unless I had to, because so many community members are incapable of providing feedback in a civil manner.

  6. #21
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    with 1.11 coming and the flood of feed back in all callings, rogue is the only one with zero head dev feedback... I know its a dead horse I just wanted to beat it one last time.
    Lack of communication is only an issue if there's serious problems. Afaik rogues are perfectly fine, so I don't see the problem.
    ~Quiescent

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    And that may be true. The answer is to then say that and if people challenge you invite them to look at all the changes that need to be done to warriors. Daglar has no problem writing "bad flurry...BAD"
    I think the results are rather self evident.

    If you have an actual issue that needs to be fixed, then post about the issue with actual data and analysis. If you are convincing enough, the change may happen, but far too often people are just posting whines with little to no data to substantiate it and almost no analysis of effects.

    It doesn't help when people post things like "rogue energy regen has gotten worse" when the actual data is completely opposite of their argument.

    Sure, a dev can write posts explaining every issue and answering every question, but that takes a lot of time, time that is almost assuredly better spent actually working on testing, validation, bug fixes, etc. About the only time a post is actually required is when there is a significant actual issue. Rogues have had very few of these in the time that the game has been released.
    Last edited by Durango; 10-16-2012 at 12:45 PM.

  8. #23
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    Also just look at Ailion's posting history. He posts in a very timely manner when either actual mechanics are in question (ex, today's post concerning mitigation stacking with RS) or when actual bugs exist. He's not ignoring this forum, it is just that very little actually requires/needs his actual response. Most mechanics questions are answered by the community and request and/or whine posts really don't warrant a dev response.

    While philosophy and reason posts for changes and mechanics would be nice, they would also entail a very significant time commitment on behalf of all of the class devs. And while we would all love to know what their exact DPS targets are for SL, it makes little sense for them to make them public as it either results in bad publicity or limits their options when they run into the release time wall(sometimes it is actually easier to retarget to an outlier than to make an outlier meet target, a somewhat classic case of this is warrior RB finishers which are notoriously hard to balance and currently aren't(or they wouldn't be the goto finishers)).

  9. #24
    Shadowlander
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    The lack of communication certainly made what happened on PTS a whole lot worse. It would have been nice if he'd left a note saying either: "You guys are fine, the other classes are terribly broken and will be nerfed in line with rogue DPS". Or "Sorry guys, I dropped the ball, the other classes are working as intended and I'll be working overtime to get you up to their level". Instead we got silence. Allowing a patch onto PTS with such horrible imbalance where rogues were bottom DPS by 30% or more and then saying nothing about it was very bad work from the devs. It was demoralizing to the rogue community who wasn't really sure what to make of the difference. We got left scratching our heads wondering if it was something we were doing wrong, or if it was something wrong with the patch itself. With the continued silence we still don't really know where we stand. Are we supposed to be bottom DPS now? If so, what benefit does the rogue bring to the raid?

  10. #25
    Telaran Mammothtruk's Avatar
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    sorry you dont approve Dunsparrow, however just because you have "insider" knowledge means very little to us normal folks. And for the record I never jumped on our dev for posting anything. I dont care if its bad news Im thankful for him letting us know one way or another. Ive posted that in the past and Ill say it in the future if it comes up.

    Also him posting today about riftstalker a little is great and I want to see it more.

  11. #26
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    I would say the 27 or so page "Tablets, Fervor, and Energy - Problems and Solutions" was mostly constructive and I don't believe I saw one single post from Ailion. This is the internet, anonymity breeds shenanigans- if our dev can't handle it, an intern to relay and respond to the community would be a great addition; our current communication situation is unacceptable.

    Recovering Rogue, gone Cleric (to summate, a masochist)

  12. #27
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Lack of communication is only an issue if there's serious problems. Afaik rogues are perfectly fine, so I don't see the problem.
    Have you been on the PTS? It's not all that great. Lot of nonsense floating around by a couple members on this forum, but Rogues aren't looking all that great across the board right now.
    Even free cost too much now

  13. #28
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cognus View Post
    I would say the 27 or so page "Tablets, Fervor, and Energy - Problems and Solutions" was mostly constructive and I don't believe I saw one single post from Ailion. This is the internet, anonymity breeds shenanigans- if our dev can't handle it, an intern to relay and respond to the community would be a great addition; our current communication situation is unacceptable.
    Pretty much. You can definitely tell the people that have never worked customer service in this thread. Imagine if you will....you went to a dining establishment. You order a spicy dish without knowing it will be spicy. You go to complain to the manager or wait staff. Instead of a simple "well I am sorry it wasn't your taste but Thai food is typically spicy, perhaps I could suggest another item from the menu?" the employee ignored you or turned and walked away?

    Again though most everyone is dodging the issue of Daglar's statement and the context it brings to this topic. If he was talking about being in a raid with fervor at level 60 with the energy poison then just come out and say it. I can deal with that. What annoys is the silence on the matter. I used to complain about zibnik on the cleric forms. He gets it though. Much of his posts here and on Beta are simply to clarify and out things in context. When you have a sweeping change like u do here....that is needed.
    Last edited by Galibier; 10-16-2012 at 07:49 PM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  14. #29
    Rift Master Jaguarundi's Avatar
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    Ailion,
    I do understand that players are not the most reasonable. I know that you are busy with a lot of things including the expansion, but, I should not have to ask Daglar on the pts to get information about something as simple as the trinket and greaters not procing. He did say it was a bug and being looked at.

    I guessI would have expected that reply from you to the thread in the PTS forums. Yes I know you have a lot on your plate right now but hearing things from you about what is being worked on and what is working as intended is important.

    We rely on you as our dev to make sure we are balanced with the rest of the classes and for answers to questions. Right now your silence is deafing.

    I know you have a lot going on but spending that extra hour so so of ot even if you have already put in 8 others is important. We just want to know what is broken and what is working as intended.

    We are your community not the private forums I hear you are posting on (this really makes me sad as your main customer base is being ignored).

    We need the same kind of feedback and support that the warrior and cleric devs give to their classes.

    Sorry if you feel like we are not worth talking to, but you know we are not all bad and more information is always better, wheter we agree with it or not at least a reason to why would be nice to hear.
    Last edited by Jaguarundi; 10-16-2012 at 09:19 PM.

  15. #30
    Sword of Telara Gynxz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    But as it turns out, during the time that we were complaining about energy starvation to the point that Daglar stepped in, Ailion was working on Storm Legion (which hadn't yet been announced at that point).
    You can't justify a past wrong with a future "possible" right. The fact that Daglar had to step in says a lot about our Dev. Also, are we supposed to get half the things wrong in this game? So Devs can either get the past right or get SL right?. Come on Muspel.

    Also, do we know for a fact he got it right? We're starved and I haven't heard anything overriding the "everyone should do a normal ST rotation without energy problems" that was said in the past. Are Rogue/Cleric numbers the right ones or Warr/Mage? After two 20 mans, they finally dealt with our Top dps spec by removing it from the game (Rip BS)

    We don't ask for much, we know Devs are not miracle workers. Sometimes Daglar steps in and just says "We're working on it" and he gets 3 pages of Thanks.

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