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Thread: Questions about weapon types and dps

  1. #1
    Prophet of Telara
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    Default Questions about weapon types and dps

    Hello rogue forums, recently rerolled mage to rogue here!

    I have a couple of questions regarding weapon types and dps i.e. questions i never really had to consider as a mage and would appreciate any answers/forum knowledge


    1) Is there a tradeoff between weapon DPS and AP i.e. if a gun with lower weapon dps had significantly more AP than the higher DPS one is it still always worse? (Is there a given tradeoff?)

    Im considering grinding R50 (34 atm) for the R50 gun but its AP is lower than other guns with lower weapon dps e.g. the Planar Hero gun. For melee I know this is irrelevant as more AP is better as ranged dps is not important.



    2) Are daggers best for melee/bloodstalker?

    This may be false but I heard daggers were the best weapon type for melee builds due to quicker auto attacks, is this true? If so how much difference are we talking as ID/PF seem loaded with swords but very few daggers!


    3) Is there any negative to mixing weapon types?

    Assuming equal PA bonus for sword and dagger is there any reason not to mix and match for the most AP? At the moment I have 1 Molten Brand and 1 Garau's Claw and could get one of the Rusila swords this week as no other rogue in guild needs them but I only have 300 PA so far from max, would it be better to stick with max PA in daggers and just hold out or would a Rusila sword be worth it?


    Looking forward to some response and becoming part of the rogue community
    Last edited by AlexTrickle; 08-31-2012 at 12:25 AM.
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Why would anyone swap from Mage to Rogue?

    Always go the higher dps weapon.
    Gun over Bow if stats are equal such as pvp weapons
    Unsure about daggers, I've heard both opinions but I'd lean toward the weapon with better stats.
    Nope.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Why would anyone swap from Mage to Rogue?
    The question is why wouldn't they?

    The only positive for the mage is that they are top ST dps. But as I have come to realise over the last couple of months that is not a sufficient reward for the borefest that is our dps. We have two viable specs but oh wait... they're the same souls and 90% the same spells and rotations whereas rogue can firstly be melee or ranged. Then within these two types there are three or more viable specs and niche specs like drainstalker for Laethys which is still easily capable of 4k+ ST whereas mage drain specs are poor dps.

    Harbinger will save the mage no doubt, but SL is a good 3-4 months off and as 1.10 won't bring any radical class changes I will (and already am) having 100x more fun on my rogue regardless of having dropped a few places in the dps tables.
    World First Maelforge, Salvarola and Ultane.
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  4. #4
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    I guess I just can't put up with the 2 button dps specs.
    Mage being top ST isn't a deciding factor for me, it's just gravy on top of what is already (to me) the most satisfying calling to play.

    Knowing that my skill actually impacts my performance is what makes it all worthwhile. I can look at Bearz and Cookie's parses and think 'those guys are doing better than me on skill, maybe if I play better I can catch them.'

    I look at top Rogues and think 'he's doing better than me because he has better gear, there's no way they're beating me by that much in a 2 button spec.' It just doesn't make me want to strive to be better since I don't see where I can improve.

    At least when playing Defile I can say to myself, 'perhaps that Opp proc should have been a Fireball instead of a Cinder Burst and maybe I would have refreshed Combust in time,' or 'Drat, I missed Internalize Charge on that Life Leech refresh, I have to work on that.'

    But if Rogue is scratching your itch then go for it! I have considered becoming a Warrior Tank but didn't really want to DPS and finding a tanking slot in a highly rated guild is pretty hard as an outsider with only experience on farm content.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 08-31-2012 at 03:11 AM.
    Nope.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    I guess I just can't put up with the 2 button dps specs.
    Mage being top ST isn't a deciding factor for me, it's just gravy on top of what is already (to me) the most satisfying calling to play.

    Knowing that my skill actually impacts my performance is what makes it all worthwhile. I can look at Bearz and Cookie's parses and think 'those guys are doing better than me on skill, maybe if I play better I can catch them.'

    I look at top Rogues and think 'he's doing better than me because he has better gear, there's no way they're beating me by that much in a 2 button spec.' It just doesn't make me want to strive to be better since I don't see where I can improve.

    At least when playing Defile I can say to myself, 'perhaps that Opp proc should have been a Fireball instead of a Cinder Burst and maybe I would have refreshed Combust in time,' or 'Drat, I missed Internalize Charge on that Life Leech refresh, I have to work on that.'

    But if Rogue is scratching your itch then go for it! I have considered becoming a Warrior Tank but didn't really want to DPS and finding a tanking slot in a highly rated guild is pretty hard as an outsider with only experience on farm content.

    Tbh the only spec that is so few buttons is ranger and granted thats the cookie cutter spec for many fights. However bloodstalker satisfies the challenging spec itch i had from defilemancer - should that finisher have been 1 CP earlier, should I have blinked a second later etc etc. Not to mention the joy of showing up warriors on fights like Ituziel - very satisfying feeling lol!

    Also I was definitely pushing dps and training on dummy a lot trying to push Coookie as well with my best at 5.1k and his just under 5.3 (he does have over 100SP more than me) but then I thought is this 1on1 competition really worth it - maybe for a month of two but not 8 months or however long since spark came into being.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTrickle View Post
    Hello rogue forums, recently rerolled mage to rogue here!

    I have a couple of questions regarding weapon types and dps i.e. questions i never really had to consider as a mage and would appreciate any answers/forum knowledge


    1) Is there a tradeoff between weapon DPS and AP i.e. if a gun with lower weapon dps had significantly more AP than the higher DPS one is it still always worse? (Is there a given tradeoff?)

    Im considering grinding R50 (34 atm) for the R50 gun but its AP is lower than other guns with lower weapon dps e.g. the Planar Hero gun. For melee I know this is irrelevant as more AP is better as ranged dps is not important.
    It's very rare for a higher weapon dps to be so far behind in AP that it's better to use a lower weapon dps. As a result, always use the highest dps weapon you have (unless it's a stat stick).

    2) Are daggers best for melee/bloodstalker?

    This may be false but I heard daggers were the best weapon type for melee builds due to quicker auto attacks, is this true? If so how much difference are we talking as ID/PF seem loaded with swords but very few daggers!
    Honestly, I think it's a bit of rng here, but I haven't extensively tested setups like sword for both MH/OH vs. daggers for MH/OH.

    Auto attack parse with dagger MH, sword OH.
    http://i.imgur.com/vXKsnh.png

    Auto attack parse with sword MH, dagger OH.
    http://i.imgur.com/fcnFnh.png

    Of course, I could test it a bit more by getting fervor and spamming some skills non-stop~ plus using dagger/dagger and sword/sword setups.

    Again it's pretty rng, because I did a parse before that and the procs and stuff were more similar. @_@

    3) Is there any negative to mixing weapon types?

    Assuming equal PA bonus for sword and dagger is there any reason not to mix and match for the most AP? At the moment I have 1 Molten Brand and 1 Garau's Claw and could get one of the Rusila swords this week as no other rogue in guild needs them but I only have 300 PA so far from max, would it be better to stick with max PA in daggers and just hold out or would a Rusila sword be worth it?


    Looking forward to some response and becoming part of the rogue community
    Not that I'm aware of, other than the fact it takes more PA points to be effective with weapon mixing. I use PF dagger and Rusila's Slicer.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTrickle View Post
    Hello rogue forums, recently rerolled mage to rogue here!

    1) Is there a tradeoff between weapon DPS and AP i.e. if a gun with lower weapon dps had significantly more AP than the higher DPS one is it still always worse? (Is there a given tradeoff?)

    Typically the DPS on a weapon will be the most important and will outweigh the higher AP on another weapon. You'll find sometimes that lower DPS weapons with high AP can be equal or slightly better than higher DPS weapons with no AP. The best example I can think of is when I compared Sailor's Lament with the Ituziel tank bow. When playing MM, the Ituziel bow slightly outperformed Sailor's Lament but while playing Ranger or Sab it was the opposite. Mind you the difference was literally 5-10 DMG per ability.

    Im considering grinding R50 (34 atm) for the R50 gun but its AP is lower than other guns with lower weapon dps e.g. the Planar Hero gun. For melee I know this is irrelevant as more AP is better as ranged dps is not important.



    2) Are daggers best for melee/bloodstalker?

    This may be false but I heard daggers were the best weapon type for melee builds due to quicker auto attacks, is this true? If so how much difference are we talking as ID/PF seem loaded with swords but very few daggers!

    It hardly makes a difference. Yes double Dagger is supposed to lead to more poison procs, but in the grand scheme don't be too worried about it.

    3) Is there any negative to mixing weapon types?

    Assuming equal PA bonus for sword and dagger is there any reason not to mix and match for the most AP? At the moment I have 1 Molten Brand and 1 Garau's Claw and could get one of the Rusila swords this week as no other rogue in guild needs them but I only have 300 PA so far from max, would it be better to stick with max PA in daggers and just hold out or would a Rusila sword be worth it?

    Just work out the AP/Crit difference including your PA between the different combinations. Generally at lower PA levels your best bet will be to stick to the same weapon type, but if you get more AP by mixing and matching the weapons then go for it.

    Looking forward to some response and becoming part of the rogue community
    Responses in the quote.

  8. #8
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    Ok brilliant, thanks for the responses. I won't be so fussy about my weapon choices now, still will need same weapon types for PA unless I can respend my PA efficiently over dagger and swords will have a look.


    Also interesting point regarding weapon dps as I had wondered if I used an ID tanking bow with high weapon dps but little AP whether that would be worth it until I get a dps gun of the same weapon dps.

    Edit: Just for reference my current ranged weapon is Verdant Archbow (been very unlucky in all my HK runs) - would the huge jump to say an ID tank bow weapon dps outweigh the loss of about 15AP?


    Thanks again
    Last edited by AlexTrickle; 08-31-2012 at 07:03 AM.
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  9. #9
    Rift Master Ymirson's Avatar
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    Weapon DPS are roughly equivalent to 10 AP(Don't forget your AP increasing talents when gauging attackpower). RoS to ID loot is a significant upgrade, no matter whether it's a tank bow.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymirson View Post
    Weapon DPS are roughly equivalent to 10 AP(Don't forget your AP increasing talents when gauging attackpower). RoS to ID loot is a significant upgrade, no matter whether it's a tank bow.
    Cool I was thinking it would be but wanted to double check. Thanks again for the replies!
    World First Maelforge, Salvarola and Ultane.
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    Props to my old guilds: eXile, Special Olympics, Exploit, Last Dawn

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