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Thread: Easy Fix for Sab?

  1. #1
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    Default Easy Fix for Sab?

    Change Carpet Bomb from:

    Reset CD on bombs and next three bombs will not have a CD/ 1 minute cooldown

    to...

    Reset CD on bombs/ 30 second cooldown.



    Instead of throwing 7 bombs in 8 seconds (on a group of stunned people if I choose the right charges) I would be able to throw 4 bombs in 5 seconds. Given the change to Carpet Bomb's cooldown, this might actually be a good thing for Sabs, and a good sight better than any other nerf Trion might eventually apply.

    Having finally gotten around to playing Saboteur on my alt, my initial impression is that the soul is pretty well tuned... with the glaring exception of Carpet Bomb.

    For those that shout out that baddies group up and Saboteur is fine as long as people spread out: no other AoE soul has the same impact, and none should. Saboteur simply packs too much of a punch too quickly due to one broken ability. I don't want to see the soul nerfed, and my suggestion is the best way I can think of to adjust it in a way that does not make Saboteur go the way of the now laughably useless Stormcaller.

    If you want to see Saboteur remain a strong soul, stop denying the obvious and come up with solutions that can bring Sab in line without gutting it.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    No.

    Get your PvP out of my PvE.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    No.

    Get your PvP out of my PvE.
    This. Sab was already nerfed once because of you mean ol' pvp players. We just got it back so leave it alone.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 08-27-2012 at 09:50 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Well, I did post this in the PvP forum. Guess someone felt it was more appropriate here.

    Regardless, Sab is OP for PvP, and this will likely result in a nerf. And we know how Trion goes about nerfing.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched Sapheros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    Well, I did post this in the PvP forum. Guess someone felt it was more appropriate here.

    Regardless, Sab is OP for PvP, and this will likely result in a nerf. And we know how Trion goes about nerfing.
    Don't really think Trion is going to be buffing or nerfing much of anything seeing as storm legion is right around the corner.

  6. #6
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    stop denying the obvious and come up with solutions that can bring Sab in line without gutting it.
    Denying what? No one is even talking about this except you.

    You're not a rogue. Alts don't count. You're some guy that got owned a few times in Conquest and has come here trying to put on the mantle of fairness. No one is buying what you're selling. Go back to the mage forums and stop standing in a pack of 50 guys in a tiny chokepoint in Conquest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    no other AoE soul has the same impact, and none should.
    Really? Maybe you've heard of Rift Storm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Denying what? No one is even talking about this except you.

    You're not a rogue. Alts don't count. You're some guy that got owned a few times in Conquest and has come here trying to put on the mantle of fairness. No one is buying what you're selling. Go back to the mage forums and stop standing in a pack of 50 guys in a tiny chokepoint in Conquest.
    No, I'm not a rogue. Nor am I a mage, a warrior, or a cleric. I'm just a guy that plays all four classes and don't have any silly class loyalty that would colour my judgement.

    And I don't play Conquest. I tend to stick to Library and Codex, and sometimes Port Scion. Though now that I am on my rogue more often, I am finding BG and WF:E to be plenty of fun.

    Really? Maybe you've heard of Rift Storm.
    I should hop on my Warrior to check that out, but I've always played Champion, not RB. Either way, Riftstorm does not come with the stun, and is a lot easier to escape.

    But then, just because RB/Champ is OP does not mean we shouldn't acknowledge the problems with Sab. If you look far enough in my post history you'll see that I already made suggestions regarding RB/Champ - specifically, move LW up the Champ tree and put an internal cooldown on PB). Without the endless ability to port to target, Riftstorm is fairly easy to escape or the Warrior can be knocked back.

    As for my suggestion for Carpet Bomb: Not only would it fix the problem without actually nerfing Sab, but I would rather have a watered down CB with shorter cooldown for PvE as well. Maybe stick it with 25 second CD and make it oGCD. Your mileage may vary, however, as I haven't raided with my rogue. I've been sticking to oPvE and PvP.

  8. #8
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    No, I'm not a rogue. Nor am I a mage, a warrior, or a cleric. I'm just a guy that plays all four classes and don't have any silly class loyalty that would colour my judgement.

    And I don't play Conquest. I tend to stick to Library and Codex, and sometimes Port Scion. Though now that I am on my rogue more often, I am finding BG and WF:E to be plenty of fun.



    I should hop on my Warrior to check that out, but I've always played Champion, not RB. Either way, Riftstorm does not come with the stun, and is a lot easier to escape.

    But then, just because RB/Champ is OP does not mean we shouldn't acknowledge the problems with Sab. If you look far enough in my post history you'll see that I already made suggestions regarding RB/Champ - specifically, move LW up the Champ tree and put an internal cooldown on PB). Without the endless ability to port to target, Riftstorm is fairly easy to escape or the Warrior can be knocked back.

    As for my suggestion for Carpet Bomb: Not only would it fix the problem without actually nerfing Sab, but I would rather have a watered down CB with shorter cooldown for PvE as well. Maybe stick it with 25 second CD and make it oGCD. Your mileage may vary, however, as I haven't raided with my rogue. I've been sticking to oPvE and PvP.
    I stopped reading when you said you never played RB and played Champion in Conquest. I almost think that you play bad specs in the wrong situations on purpose to find more things to cry nerf about on the forums.

    I'm not addressing your saboteur concerns again. Its clear that you think its overpowered without any valid reasoning (other than whining/anecdotes). You keep asserting that its overpowered without any sort of supporting evidence. If I have drawn the wrong conclusion, feel free to set me straight with valid reasoning.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 08-28-2012 at 05:28 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    I stopped reading when you said you never played RB and played Champion in Conquest. I almost think that you play bad specs in the wrong situations on purpose to find more things to cry nerf about on the forums.

    I'm not addressing your saboteur concerns again. Its clear that you think its overpowered without any valid reasoning (other than whining/anecdotes). You keep asserting that its overpowered without any sort of supporting evidence. If I have drawn the wrong conclusion, feel free to set me straight with valid reasoning.
    He got carpet bombed a few times or RS >> Blast Charged and now he's crying not realizing how paper thin we are.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Really? Maybe you've heard of Rift Storm.
    Riftstorm isn't even in the same league of overpowered as Saboteur Carpet Bombing is.

    He got carpet bombed a few times or RS >> Blast Charged and now he's crying not realizing how paper thin we are.
    Your survivability doesn't really matter since you can attack from 30m range with great (aoe) Stun potential and high singletarget damage. A smart Sab will rarely be in danger.

    "Spread out" and other advice looks good on paper, but due to the nature of warfronts isn't always so viable. Even if you do combat a Saboteur perfectly, they still have highish singletarget damage and that Stun utility.
    Raenryong@Deepwood R69 ~ Amathys@Zaviel (Rogue)
    Serefina@Deepwood R66 ~ Solserefina@Zaviel (Warrior)
    Seraena@Deepwood R80 ~ Seraena@Zaviel R70 (Cleric)
    Avalonia@Deepwood R66 ~ Avalonia@Zaviel (Mage)
    <Dauntless> ~ <Excellence>

  11. #11
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    Riftstorm isn't even in the same league of overpowered as Saboteur Carpet Bombing is.



    Your survivability doesn't really matter since you can attack from 30m range with great (aoe) Stun potential and high singletarget damage. A smart Sab will rarely be in danger.

    "Spread out" and other advice looks good on paper, but due to the nature of warfronts isn't always so viable. Even if you do combat a Saboteur perfectly, they still have highish singletarget damage and that Stun utility.
    Never seen you in the rogue forums before. I wonder what class you play. Probably the "rogues only kill me when they are sab, so nerf sab" class.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Never seen you in the rogue forums before. I wonder what class you play. Probably the "rogues only kill me when they are sab, so nerf sab" class.
    R6 => R8 => R40 => R50 Rogue, been my main class for ... god knows how long now. I've played Sab and it's pretty obviously overpowered... enough that I felt disgusted using it and went back to using my three regular PvP specs (MM/RS, NB/BD, Sin/RS or MM).

    I don't think it's in need of a sledgehammer nerf, but just an adjustment. Something like Annihilation Bomb stun not applying during Carpet Bombing and a slight (10%~?) reduction in High Explosives damage.

    Riftstorm, speaking as a Rogue, is generally not a threat since we have such high mobility. I feel sorry for Clerics though. That being said, I think Riftstorm is a bit too good, but nowhere near on the level that Saboteur is.
    Raenryong@Deepwood R69 ~ Amathys@Zaviel (Rogue)
    Serefina@Deepwood R66 ~ Solserefina@Zaviel (Warrior)
    Seraena@Deepwood R80 ~ Seraena@Zaviel R70 (Cleric)
    Avalonia@Deepwood R66 ~ Avalonia@Zaviel (Mage)
    <Dauntless> ~ <Excellence>

  13. #13
    Plane Walker MRFabulouss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Never seen you in the rogue forums before. I wonder what class you play. Probably the "rogues only kill me when they are sab, so nerf sab" class.
    "Ive never heard of you and i'm a big deal so you must be a noob" all im hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    No, I'm not a rogue. Nor am I a mage, a warrior, or a cleric. I'm just a guy that plays all four classes and don't have any silly class loyalty that would colour my judgement.
    He palys those class's

    Something liek this ?

    * Sign of Asias: Now reduces the damage Decay deals to players while active.
    Last edited by MRFabulouss; 08-30-2012 at 11:39 AM.
    Calm As A Bomb

  14. #14
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRFabulouss View Post
    "Ive never heard of you and i'm a big deal so you must be a noob" all im hearing
    You hear what you want to hear. I have never claimed to be anything special; certainly not in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    R6 => R8 => R40 => R50 Rogue, been my main class for ... god knows how long now. I've played Sab and it's pretty obviously overpowered... enough that I felt disgusted using it and went back to using my three regular PvP specs (MM/RS, NB/BD, Sin/RS or MM).

    I don't think it's in need of a sledgehammer nerf, but just an adjustment. Something like Annihilation Bomb stun not applying during Carpet Bombing and a slight (10%~?) reduction in High Explosives damage.

    Riftstorm, speaking as a Rogue, is generally not a threat since we have such high mobility. I feel sorry for Clerics though. That being said, I think Riftstorm is a bit too good, but nowhere near on the level that Saboteur is.
    Okay fair enough. I strongly disagree about the nerfs, but it doesn't matter since they won't be doing any balancing before SL anyway. Rogue needs a viable PvP spec and the others you mentioned are pretty bad, honestly. Especially MM/RS. I'm sure you know that.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Okay fair enough. I strongly disagree about the nerfs, but it doesn't matter since they won't be doing any balancing before SL anyway. Rogue needs a viable PvP spec and the others you mentioned are pretty bad, honestly. Especially MM/RS. I'm sure you know that.
    http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2...facepalmp1.gif
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