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Thread: A question about Rangers

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    Default A question about Rangers

    EDIT: Well, I should've changed the title to about "Rogues" sorry about that.

    Hello, everyone. I'm currently leveling a rogue in order to better understand the class, and there are several things that are confusing me. My rogue is only level 33, so some of the upper-level abilities aren't available for me to practice with yet. I'm not satisfied with just reading a guide that tells me how to do something unless it tells me *why* I'm utilizing one ability or talent over another.

    1) The Ranger guide recommends using 15 Marksman. Why does it recommend that over, say, 15 Nightblade? Would there be a significant DPS change? I noticed that ranged abilities proc Hellfire Blades, so talent-wise, I would imagine 15% damage increase on generators and finishers, plus a 6% general damage increase and a 10% damage increase from Hellfire Blades would be good.

    2) Generally speaking, what is the most involved Rogue-spec that does not include Riftstalker for the blinking?

    3) Do the munitions in Marksman stack? I've not tried it out because I haven't purchased an additional role slot, but I imagine they don't. If they do not, are there situations where one munition might be better than another, outside obviously Vampiric being useful for PvP? I imagine Silver Tip is for longer raid-encounters where you can keep up the stacks reliably, but what about for trash or dungeons? Electrified seems better than Rending.

    4) Serpent Strike in Assassin says that it counts as a poison. What does this entail? Does this just mean that it gains bonuses from talents and spells like Poison Potency and Poison Malice.

    5) DPS as an aside, what soul combinations of rogue do you find most enjoyable, and why is that?

    Tanking seems very simple, and I've had a moderate degree of success, Darkening Deeps aside. I feel squishy, but I feel that's a gearing issue. I've not needed to worry about interrupting yet, but I feel that I'm up for the challenge. Should I be using either Meditative Trance or Motif of Renew if I have a free moment? At the moment, I don't have Meditative Trance talented because I only have 7 points in Bladedancer. This is more of a future question.
    Last edited by Caydin; 08-26-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    1) The Ranger guide recommends using 15 Marksman. Why does it recommend that over, say, 15 Nightblade? Would there be a significant DPS change? I noticed that ranged abilities proc Hellfire Blades, so talent-wise, I would imagine 15% damage increase on generators and finishers, plus a 6% general damage increase and a 10% damage increase from Hellfire Blades would be good.
    Rapid Fire Shot, Electrified Munitions, Increased Firepower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    2) Generally speaking, what is the most involved Rogue-spec that does not include Riftstalker for the blinking?
    Define "involved".

    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    3) Do the munitions in Marksman stack? I've not tried it out because I haven't purchased an additional role slot, but I imagine they don't. If they do not, are there situations where one munition might be better than another, outside obviously Vampiric being useful for PvP? I imagine Silver Tip is for longer raid-encounters where you can keep up the stacks reliably, but what about for trash or dungeons? Electrified seems better than Rending.
    You can have two weapon enhancement abilities (Assassin Poisons, Marksman Munitions, or Nightblade... Blades) active at once. For deep Marksman builds, Electrified is always yes, with Vampiric or Silver being juggled depending on how deep in MM you are and what you're dealing with. Rending shouldn't be used unless you're sub-51 and don't need Vampiric.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    4) Serpent Strike in Assassin says that it counts as a poison. What does this entail? Does this just mean that it gains bonuses from talents and spells like Poison Potency and Poison Malice.
    Pretty much exactly that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    5) DPS as an aside, what soul combinations of rogue do you find most enjoyable, and why is that?
    34 Bard/32 RS is a good utility/troll spec for PvP, and 40 Bard/16 NB/10 MM is a good raid buff + Fell Blades spam spec for Conquest. There's also a RS/Sin/BD spec that's pretty solid for solo grinding things, but I've written it out of my role slots, using 44 MM/22 RS for any sort of IA or farming. Aside from that, I pretty much only play Marksman, Nightblade (when I get a melee itch) or Ranger (for PvE). Saboteur never grew on me, but it's quite potent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    Tanking seems very simple, and I've had a moderate degree of success, Darkening Deeps aside. I feel squishy, but I feel that's a gearing issue. I've not needed to worry about interrupting yet, but I feel that I'm up for the challenge. Should I be using either Meditative Trance or Motif of Renew if I have a free moment? At the moment, I don't have Meditative Trance talented because I only have 7 points in Bladedancer. This is more of a future question.
    I won't profess to being a tanking expert, but all you should need to do is maintain buffs/threat and burn cooldowns if things get dicey. You shouldn't need to worry about the healing component at all.
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    1. Fifteen marksman gives you 25%ap(on crit) and up to 25% armor ignore. It is the cats meow for 51 ranger. At lvl 33 Sin, bard, nightblade and rs may be as good or better. What is optimal will change a lot as you get better stats.
    2. Bladedancer is interesting to me-not very macroable and needs a little thought.
    3. You can have 2 weapon enchantments(including poisons) of any kind at one time. Your assessment of munitions is good.
    4.Seems I read a post saying that was a tooltip error-never played 51 sin and not sure.
    5.I like ranger and marksman-killem before they kill you. I have enjoyed a lot of off the wall battle bard builds-experimenting with builds is just fun itself. I enjoy Sin with RS, BD, NB and even ranger. If you like to quest a build with runspeed, perma stealth and slip away is convenient. Or just use the basic solo spec RS/BD/Sin and kill your way through.

    I am not much on tanking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    2) Generally speaking, what is the most involved Rogue-spec that does not include Riftstalker for the blinking?
    Assuming you mean "complicated rotation", then I'd say Saboteur, followed by Bladedancer. Neither one is particularly complicated, though. If you're looking for truly involved rotations, then mage is your best bet.

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    Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Define "involved".
    I would like to monitor different abilities and watch them come together. If possible, I would like to avoid as many macros as possible, though maintenance macros (like Precision/Quick/Keen Strike) are fine.

    As for mage, that's already my primary calling I would like to tank now and again, then.
    Last edited by Caydin; 08-26-2012 at 12:26 PM.
    Regardless of what happens, people will always be unhappy. Be thankful for what you have and always be constructive.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Poster View Post
    good or the best
    This quote offers insight into why there are so many perceived balance issues. To some, it doesn't matter how good something is; if it isn't the best, it isn't worth using.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Most of this got answered already so I'll just fill in this question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    2) Generally speaking, what is the most involved Rogue-spec that does not include Riftstalker for the blinking?
    51 Bladedancer by far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Dancing Steel has proven to be *quite* fun. I'm really like Nightblade and Bladedancer.

    Would I be correct in assuming that the DPS rhythmic actions are Double Coup, Dualism, Blade and Coul Parity and Blade Tempo. I'd imagine it'd be best to cycle through them one after the other, but what's the best one for tying with abilities like Wild Growth and Flaring Power?
    Regardless of what happens, people will always be unhappy. Be thankful for what you have and always be constructive.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Poster View Post
    good or the best
    This quote offers insight into why there are so many perceived balance issues. To some, it doesn't matter how good something is; if it isn't the best, it isn't worth using.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    Dancing Steel has proven to be *quite* fun. I'm really like Nightblade and Bladedancer.

    Would I be correct in assuming that the DPS rhythmic actions are Double Coup, Dualism, Blade and Coul Parity and Blade Tempo. I'd imagine it'd be best to cycle through them one after the other, but what's the best one for tying with abilities like Wild Growth and Flaring Power?
    You need to use them in order. There is not really any room for tying one to support's cd's. The whole rotation is nuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    You need to use them in order. There is not really any room for tying one to support's cd's. The whole rotation is nuts.
    Ah, I see. It feels like there should be one more there. Wouldn't it be fun if Bladedancers had a buff that they could put on an ally that would allow credit for dodges and parries to be copied. So whenever the tank dodges or parries a boss, the Bladedancer's Strike Back and Reprisal would proc. That would probably be a ton of fun.
    Regardless of what happens, people will always be unhappy. Be thankful for what you have and always be constructive.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Poster View Post
    good or the best
    This quote offers insight into why there are so many perceived balance issues. To some, it doesn't matter how good something is; if it isn't the best, it isn't worth using.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    Ah, I see. It feels like there should be one more there. Wouldn't it be fun if Bladedancers had a buff that they could put on an ally that would allow credit for dodges and parries to be copied. So whenever the tank dodges or parries a boss, the Bladedancer's Strike Back and Reprisal would proc. That would probably be a ton of fun.
    The blade dancer synergy crystal adds duration to the rythmic abilities so there is no gap.

    That idea has already been suggested to the devs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caydin View Post
    Dancing Steel has proven to be *quite* fun. I'm really like Nightblade and Bladedancer.

    Would I be correct in assuming that the DPS rhythmic actions are Double Coup, Dualism, Blade and Coul Parity and Blade Tempo. I'd imagine it'd be best to cycle through them one after the other, but what's the best one for tying with abilities like Wild Growth and Flaring Power?
    Dualism is the highest ST damage Rhythm by a fair ways, so if you can time it to synch that up with that lot do it. Keep in mind that as a Bladedancer you should always be using some kind of DPS Rhythm when attacking so don't sit on it waiting for too long if nothing else is ready.

    For AoE though the combination of Blade and Soul Parity and Dancing Steel is devastating.

    I would say that Bladedancer is the most involving (and fun!) DPS build, though the soul is in need of a bit of a buff. Getting the most out of the various Rhythms requires a bit of forward planning to have the right one ready for the situation (you do not want to be wasting Dualism on an AoE situation for example).
    Last edited by Kedon; 08-26-2012 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Most of this got answered already so I'll just fill in this question.



    51 Bladedancer by far.
    Though I agree I found bladedancer somewhat involved. For me personally Saboteur requires the most thought. So many charges and just so many situations. I would definitely agree though that Bladedancer and Saboteur are the most involved specs.

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    It's far easier to adapt and not lose a lot of DPS with Sab than it is with Bladedancer. To be effective with Bladedancer you need to know exactly when X mechanic is going to happen and time your dances accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitto View Post
    It's far easier to adapt and not lose a lot of DPS with Sab than it is with Bladedancer. To be effective with Bladedancer you need to know exactly when X mechanic is going to happen and time your dances accordingly.
    It sounds very exciting. I can't wait for when I hit 50.
    Regardless of what happens, people will always be unhappy. Be thankful for what you have and always be constructive.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Poster View Post
    good or the best
    This quote offers insight into why there are so many perceived balance issues. To some, it doesn't matter how good something is; if it isn't the best, it isn't worth using.

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    bladedancer.. sab itself requires little to no thought, simply rotate and hope you don't mess it up (hope you use a gun not a bow)

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