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Thread: Duelist/fencer as a new rogue or warrior soul?

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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Default Duelist/fencer as a new rogue or warrior soul?

    Hello, been away from rift for awhile playing afew other games to see what is out there, and then got pulled back by the storm legion expansion.

    Now as the thread is titled, what do you think of rogues getting a soul that is a duelist or fencer style of soul, with alot of emphasis on hit rating, debuffs to weaken targets, and also sofft cc to keep their targets in cose range. As well as being largely based around using a single one-handed weapon, such as axes, swords, hammers, and also daggers.

    The method i would do this is to use a low root ability, or deep talent that would increase the damage, statical values, and maybe even the speed of the weapon by a certain percent (would increase based on how deep you specc into the soul if it is a root.), and would only be active while you are weilding a single one handed weapon.

    For the fact of trying to make the class feel more like a soul that is about accurate hits maybe have a talent that converts the exceess hit rating you have over the hit needed for a target into either raw dps or damage. While also having finishers that could have the damage, or duration of their effect incrreased based on how much hit you have, while also having it that if you have enouph hit it would change the effect all together. Such as a finsiher that snares a target for afew seconds that would slowly increase as you gain more hit, yet might at a certain level of hit become a stun even. Where as having a finisher that targets the heaart of organs dealing alot of damage, which increases based on your hit rating, yet might become a instant kill as well at a high enough value.

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    Ascendant Bloodbourne's Avatar
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    ...blade...dancer?
    Misterwar <-Virus-> 5/11 Warborne <Yakisoba> 5/11 Warborne <Apotheosys> 0/11

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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbourne View Post
    ...blade...dancer?
    Not really at all, since none of the souls in the rogue arche-type use a single one handed weapon. While Bladedancer is largely a duelist style of soul (unless it has gone thru a huge overhaul lately, which is possible.), it still keeps with the design of dual weilding a pair of weapon, as well as stacking alot of crit rating, over using mechanics that would actually make the class having excess hit being largely a benefit to the soul, such as in pvp as a form of boosting raw burst damage by converting the excess hit rating you have. Also having a feature in the finishers that aguements your finishers as you gain more hit rating over the needed amount as well. In many ways i see Bladedanver as a reactive duelist as a large amount of their abilities are well activated by dodging or parrying hits, while for the fencer/duelist it would be by making their attacks increassingly more accurate (though their convertion of hit), as well as focusing on a single one handed-weapon over the predominent dual weilding style/feel of the rest of the souls.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Itemization really hamstrings the idea of a 1h only rogue soul. No one is going to want to drop the other stat stick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Itemization really hamstrings the idea of a 1h only rogue soul. No one is going to want to drop the other stat stick.
    It's very possible to have it as a visual-only change, like with Harbinger.

    That being said, this sounds exactly like Bladedancer except with different visuals.

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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Itemization really hamstrings the idea of a 1h only rogue soul. No one is going to want to drop the other stat stick.
    True only based on if you they don't use a talent that would boost the stats on the one single handed weapon you would be using, whch would make it more about what other talents, as well as root abilities that could sinergize with the rest of the souls. Kinda why I was looking at a talent that upped the stats gained from your one-hander, and then if you add in any excess hit rating on the weapon being converted into raw damage or dps, and it could net you a positive bonus for the sacrifice of that single weapon. I could see it being an issue in say a soul like Blade-dancer with the off-hand attacks, as well as witth the attacks that use bth the main as well as off haand weapons. Yet with souls that actually never use a off-hand to attack merely using it *** you say a stat stick, the fct of getting the actual damage/dps of your main hand weapon buffed up, alongside the stats on the item's other stats, it could make several other souls even more usable in play. But the whole reason i was looking at having a root or talent that would buff the damage or dps, stats, and even maybe speed of the weapon you wielded is as a way of off0set the loss of the second weapons stats (largely.).

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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    It's very possible to have it as a visual-only change, like with Harbinger.

    That being said, this sounds exactly like Bladedancer except with different visuals.
    Well the idea is from many parts like the blade-dancer on levels, yet i was trying to take the idea more away from the way a blade-dancer is reactively based (most of their greatest ability are active after getting hit, dodged, or parrying attacks like contra tempo/stike back/reprisal. I woould say though that the two woould have a pretty close similarity till much deeper in the tree/roots.

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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Also if you added in things like a talent in the tree or roots that made it that you gained additional threat from dodging, or parryig attacks against you it might make it worthwhile for a rogue tannk to get higher parry an dodge percents (always though that it was weird when warriors had higher dodge, and parry then a rogue in weaker armor), as well as maiking speccing deeper into blade-dancer more valueable/viable then it is now. The idea of having your finishers actually being aguemented by how much hit rating you had, as such doing more damage, durations lastting longer, or even changing their efect is different from any other soul in the rogue tree. The idea for your hit rating effecting what your finsiher does more actively is as a direct show of how your strikes are becoming more accurate, and effective in doing their jobs.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elric-merren View Post
    True only based on if you they don't use a talent that would boost the stats on the one single handed weapon you would be using, whch would make it more about what other talents, as well as root abilities that could sinergize with the rest of the souls. Kinda why I was looking at a talent that upped the stats gained from your one-hander, and then if you add in any excess hit rating on the weapon being converted into raw damage or dps, and it could net you a positive bonus for the sacrifice of that single weapon. I could see it being an issue in say a soul like Blade-dancer with the off-hand attacks, as well as witth the attacks that use bth the main as well as off haand weapons. Yet with souls that actually never use a off-hand to attack merely using it *** you say a stat stick, the fct of getting the actual damage/dps of your main hand weapon buffed up, alongside the stats on the item's other stats, it could make several other souls even more usable in play. But the whole reason i was looking at having a root or talent that would buff the damage or dps, stats, and even maybe speed of the weapon you wielded is as a way of off0set the loss of the second weapons stats (largely.).
    Instead of some complicated talent that essentially negates the need for an off hand why not give rogues two handers?

    Rogues are going to get forced to use any soul with a weapon stat multiplying talent as it really takes alot of time/ effort to get all the rogues two one handers. Complain to josh york about it I don't know.

    This really goes down to a big issue of itemization here and I think you are on to something with your idea.

    Options:

    1. A talent that doubles the stats of a one hander
    2. Rogue 2handers, do we see one in the SL vid?
    3. one handers dropping in pairs or item sets
    4. Bosses dropping one handers more frequently

    I favor option 3 ,but in the end it is up to the devs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Instead of some complicated talent that essentially negates the need for an off hand why not give rogues two handers?

    Rogues are going to get forced to use any soul with a weapon stat multiplying talent as it really takes alot of time/ effort to get all the rogues two one handers. Complain to josh york about it I don't know.

    This really goes down to a big issue of itemization here and I think you are on to something with your idea.

    Options:

    1. A talent that doubles the stats of a one hander
    2. Rogue 2handers, do we see one in the SL vid?
    3. one handers dropping in pairs or item sets
    4. Bosses dropping one handers more frequently

    I favor option 3 ,but in the end it is up to the devs.
    Not too found of getting rogues with two-handers, though pole-arms like glaives, halberd (spelling?), and such might work instead to keep that feel of a malee agility style fighter.

    In ways is it really a bad idea for rogues that desire to use one single one hander the option, while also using a soul as a way of allowing other players that prefer dual-wielding a way of staying competitive till they gain a second one hander that will make the other speccs perform better allowing them t play as such. Thoug i think going with a stat that doubles the stats is or might be too op, while merely buffing the statical values (damage/dps, speed, and stats) by 75 when deeply specced, along side the hit rating converting aspect of the soul would make for a compelling soul that would have (imo atleast.) a great soul to use with other souls such as sins.

    I would love to see one handers dropp more offen, or having a chance to drop in pairs on bosses.

    Thank you though, as i am trying to fgure a way of making a soul that would be kinda new looking, and feeling, while also trying to keep the main aspects largely balanced that it is not one part of the soul, but the combined aspect that woould make it a better choice overall.

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    Rift Master Ymirson's Avatar
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    Itemization and raid tiering doesn't produce that much excess hit rating. This is not WoW.
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    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymirson View Post
    Itemization and raid tiering doesn't produce that much excess hit rating. This is not WoW.
    Depends on what item since getting a sword for instance that has 20 to 30 hit rating on it, would/could turn into a weapon with 35-65 hitt on it (by the fact of how a talent that increases the stat values on the weapon by a certain percent), also this is not really taking into account that the dps/damage, other stats, as well as possiblely the speed of the weapon could be affected as well. Also this is more taking into account that a player is trying to keep their hit rating as close to the cap as possible, which in the case of knowing that if you go over the hit cap it would actually convert into damage/dps over being completely a dps loss as it would be normally, hence why we have a cap largely is the point when stacking hit is no longer beneficial enouph to be warreted. Also it is largely how high of a conversion rate you have on the hit to damage ratio, to low an it is worthless, yet too high an it becomes extremely op as well.

    Now iif going with only the excess hit rating is netting players to small a bonus, it could go to converting over the hit rating all together as a dps/dps boost (this too me could be far worse, yet would make some for the hit stacking in pvp give a boost to the rogues atleast.). The issue here is again the conversion rate largely again, since if it is too high then it is severely op, yet if it is too low then it is gimping the class. This is kinda why i looked at the fact of making it that the soul as a whole would desire to stack hit rating more offen, as more of their talents, abilities, a nd such would work of the hit rating to improve them proformance.

    Yet i agree that largely right now, though even wow started out with hit rating being rather hard to come by, and only when late bc into lk did hit rating become so plentiful, with how itemization works it would need to be tweaked alot. Although with a new expansion the itemization could go either way really, add in that many souls (majorly i hear on rogues.) aree getting reworked, and so having a soul that could have several of the cast off abiliteis or concepts of other souls (like bladedancer, or such.) put into it, while also giving a new feel as well as style of a soul would be interesting.

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