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Thread: Ranger Buff - Feral Instincts vs. Predatory Instincts

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    Champion Fudily's Avatar
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    Default Ranger Buff - Feral Instincts vs. Predatory Instincts

    While I believe I'm right on which is the better buff, every other Rogue in my guild seems to disagree and I can't convince them otherwise.
    So the purpose of this post is to hopefully get some feedback from the "higher-up" Rogues in the game in order to determine which buff is better and why.

    We're all mostly ID geared and use the standard 51RNG/15MM/0Sin build.

    The core argument against Feral is that the 3% Crit/Pet Crit boost we get is ineffective towards our +AP/Damage on Crit procs as they are always going to be up with a 10-20 second timer and 50% crit chance (-3% base on pet) anyway.
    And then procs aside - the other argument is that the Crit we gain from Feral doesn't outweigh the AP bonus from Predatory (which I equated to roughly.. 3 effective AP vs. 3% crit bonus to our pet which I believe to be around 30% of our total damage)



    Thank you for your time.
    Kukri @Deepwood
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    I wish there was a way to record combat logs.
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    Why can't sab have GTAE for its traps? This cast time is really lame, its 2014, make it so.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Imo it depends on the circumstances. 3% crit applies to you and the pet. 45 AP applies only to u. When you are solo or in a group...predatory. in a raid though, once fully raid buffed, as a static 45 AP, Predatory gets SLIGHTLY out done by Feral in my experience.
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    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    value of predatory instincts = 46 x 2 = 92
    value of feral instincts = 6 x 26 = 156

    feral instincts wins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Imo it depends on the circumstances. 3% crit applies to you and the pet. 45 AP applies only to u. When you are solo or in a group...predatory. in a raid though, once fully raid buffed, as a static 45 AP, Predatory gets SLIGHTLY out done by Feral in my experience.
    A lot depends on your AP. Fully raid buffed as a rgr, you're going to be in the range of 2k+ AP in ID gear. At that point the ~4.5% damage increase from feral will outweigh the ~3.75% damage increase from predatory. Cross over point is ~1550 AP fully buffed with Increased Firepower.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Post crit cap, the 3% crit from Feral Instincts is approximately equal in value to 395 crit rating.

    According to Qan's spreadsheet, post-softcap crit has 1/4 the value of AP. That means that in order for Predatory Instincts to be competitive, it would have to give around 100 AP, when it's actually less than half that.

    And that doesn't even take into account the fact that Predatory Instincts doesn't affect your pet, which pushes things even further in Feral's favor.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    value of predatory instincts = 46 x 2 = 92
    value of feral instincts = 6 x 26 = 156

    feral instincts wins.
    I agree with your assessment but what do these numbers represent? I take it pred is 46ap x (2:1 ap ratio) correct but what about feral?
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    I agree with your assessment but what do these numbers represent? I take it pred is 46ap x (2:1 ap ratio) correct but what about feral?
    I assume that the 26 is the pre-softcap crit rate conversion (26 rating->1% crit). I don't know why he's multiplying it by six instead of three, though. Maybe he's doubling it because of the pet, even though he shouldn't be?

    Anyways, it should really be calculated with post-softcap crit, since most rogues will be crit capped in HK gear (or ID gear when using crit-heavy resist cores).
    Last edited by Muspel; 08-19-2012 at 07:58 AM.

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    Champion Fudily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    A lot depends on your AP. Fully raid buffed as a rgr, you're going to be in the range of 2k+ AP in ID gear. At that point the ~4.5% damage increase from feral will outweigh the ~3.75% damage increase from predatory. Cross over point is ~1550 AP fully buffed with Increased Firepower.
    How did you reach these figures?
    Kukri @Deepwood
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I wish there was a way to record combat logs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Why can't sab have GTAE for its traps? This cast time is really lame, its 2014, make it so.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    I'd like to know how he came up with the figures too. When you crit you hit for max damage + 50%, so I can see where 3% extra crit equates to a ballpark number of 4.5% dps. The higher your crit the bigger the bang for your buck of your existing AP.

    What I don't get is how 50ish ap is 4%. I've been trying to figure out the amount 1 ap increases your dps by for each build but haven't been able to figure it out. I'm wondering if the soliton blade is a dps increase for my offhand because of the proc.
    Last edited by Mayi; 08-19-2012 at 11:46 AM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

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    Telaran Haighttt's Avatar
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    For me, parsing feral instincts wins out every time over predatory instincts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    I'd like to know how he came up with the figures too. When you crit you hit for max damage + 50%, so I can see where 3% extra crit equates to a ballpark number of 4.5% dps. The higher your crit the bigger the bang for your buck of your existing AP.

    What I don't get is how 50ish ap is 4%. I've been trying to figure out the amount 1 ap increases your dps by for each build but haven't been able to figure it out. I'm wondering if the soliton blade is a dps increase for my offhand because of the proc.
    (45 * 1.55 (rgr AP damage mod)) / 2k (aka 2kish AP)

    This slightly overweights AP because it doesn't take weapon contribution into account but it is close enough for a swag.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Let's not argue about numbers and just all use feral instincts okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    indeed.. i am sure there is plenty of time to simply parse the difference 3 times each and note the avg for comparison, I'm sure this will tell the truth (but only at present). Things may change as you get decked out in BiS, can't hurt to parse again.


    also... anybody like my poison idea?

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    Champion Fudily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Let's not argue about numbers and just all use feral instincts okay?
    Predatory Instincts is listed in your Rogue Bible. I think this might be part of the reason they all use it.

    People are too trusting of you, but I can see past that teenage Iranian female soldier innocence.
    Kukri @Deepwood
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I wish there was a way to record combat logs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Why can't sab have GTAE for its traps? This cast time is really lame, its 2014, make it so.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    It's been discussed several times in the thread following his guide on which is now better to use, I really do not understand the animosity here, guides are neat, useful, but holding hands only goes soo far. I know he had some issues with being able to update it, but anybody with the ability to read can easily find the same data veterans already know.

    A good player will stay up to date with the data, and test things out, knowing when to modify how they play. Bad ones take the first thing they found on bing (good people use google right?) cut paste and call it playing.
    Last edited by Mirimon; 08-19-2012 at 06:22 PM.

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