+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 65
Like Tree6Likes

Thread: A New Poison?

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,501

    Default A New Poison?

    Just had an brilliant idea while I was on the pot:

    Test_Poison_1 (because it won't matter what I call it, perhaps Bubonic Poison?)

    The Rogue's poison coated blades have a 20% chance to infect the target, causing any healing that the infected does to actually be damage to those who would receive their heals.



    put this DEEP in Sin and imagine an actual purpose in group pvp, as he sneaks in to infect the enemy, requiring the healing to be very aware of this and not heal his raid until they are no longer infected. Lol would be also for people using a leaching effect on the target to heal themselves would also get infected (yeah, spamout mm).

    This I think would also make for an interesting raid mechanic used against players

    Just noticed that so far we have a
    +crit poison
    some minor +dmg poisons
    a bunch of healreduction/heal me poisons
    and some Leaching abilities

    I really think this would be a neat idea, and also throw a wrench in our own workings. somewhat chaotic and potentially lethal. Should be able to make it do 100% of the dmg, since in pvp healing is nerfed anyways. something like this would also work on things like invig soul from bards and chloro dots, flipping them around causing the dmg to actually heal the target and the heals to damage the raid.


    What do you guys think? This seems like a pretty new take on our poisons.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    Lol.. not one comment, good bad? their own ideas? being honest here.. why refrain?

  3. #3
    Ascendant Bloodbourne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,263

    Default

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...RftsfqddR.z.-7

    /cast Fanout


    annnnnnd you just broke PvP.
    Misterwar <-Virus-> 5/11 Warborne <Yakisoba> 5/11 Warborne <Apotheosys> 0/11

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Blytzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbourne View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...RftsfqddR.z.-7

    /cast Fanout


    annnnnnd you just broke PvP.
    /cast Riftstorm

    Pvp is already broke, go back to the warriors threads.
    SOUL FORGED 4/4 TotDQ - 4/4 FT - 4/5 EE www.soul-forged.com
    Blytz - Rogue
    Vyo - Mage
    Dyzmal - Cleric

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    Just had an brilliant idea while I was on the pot:

    Test_Poison_1 (because it won't matter what I call it, perhaps Bubonic Poison?)

    The Rogue's poison coated blades have a 20% chance to infect the target, causing any healing that the infected does to actually be damage to those who would receive their heals.



    put this DEEP in Sin and imagine an actual purpose in group pvp, as he sneaks in to infect the enemy, requiring the healing to be very aware of this and not heal his raid until they are no longer infected. Lol would be also for people using a leaching effect on the target to heal themselves would also get infected (yeah, spamout mm).

    This I think would also make for an interesting raid mechanic used against players

    Just noticed that so far we have a
    +crit poison
    some minor +dmg poisons
    a bunch of healreduction/heal me poisons
    and some Leaching abilities

    I really think this would be a neat idea, and also throw a wrench in our own workings. somewhat chaotic and potentially lethal. Should be able to make it do 100% of the dmg, since in pvp healing is nerfed anyways. something like this would also work on things like invig soul from bards and chloro dots, flipping them around causing the dmg to actually heal the target and the heals to damage the raid.


    What do you guys think? This seems like a pretty new take on our poisons.
    would be ridiculously overpowered... but clerics would finally get some kb's!

  6. #6
    Ascendant Bloodbourne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blytzz View Post
    /cast Riftstorm

    Pvp is already broke, go back to the warriors threads.
    It's dead there. Besides, I play all classes. It's more fun being better than everyone at every calling than it is to be better than everyone as a warrior.
    Misterwar <-Virus-> 5/11 Warborne <Yakisoba> 5/11 Warborne <Apotheosys> 0/11

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,837

    Default

    First off, this isn't really an assassin-themed ability. "Tainted healing" sounds a lot more like Nightblade's supernatural schtick than anything else, because it's very difficult to imagine any kind of poison that would make healing spells suddenly work in reverse.

    Second, that's much too powerful as an always-on buff. If anything, it would need to be a single-target ability with a long cooldown, perhaps two minutes or so. And even then, it might be too good.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    It would have to be a reduced percentage effect to work -- the target's heals instead do damage equal to x% of their value -- and it would probably be pretty busted, but I like anything that steps up the level of alertness/active play required.

    I think it would have to be an active ability with a cooldown instead of a proc-based buff, too, since it's essentially a 100% outgoing heal debuff++.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  9. #9
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    meh, my concept was that it would be VERY deep in a soul, so that some silly hybrid couldn't just use it with aoe's, or some other method of making it st only. Not only that.. but cleansable.. it would be that person's own fault for not removing it before mindlessly spamming their heal ability, just as other people are annoyed with "fanout" (like that's the only aoe in the game? stop crying).

    I wouldn't go for a reduction or % of the healing, as that would be nearly pointless and for the most part.. no different than an ordinary debuff/leach ability. Having a 20% chance to have an 8 second debuff that is removable means in the pvp world it will only be an issue for a very short period of time. How many assassins do you see flying about in those massive groups of pvp? None, because they are forced to look for people straggling or wondering about on their own. This would provide a unique dynamic, allowing them to infiltrate the supporting lines and put a hurt on their functions, not to solo people with. I think by also making it chaotic in the regards of having it effect friendly players attempting to use a leaching skill on the infected target, so yeah, those silly fanout kids with fellblades would end up hurting themselves if they hit the wrong one.

    more so.. this would be fantastic for raid mechanics.. it's been a long time since I last seen something like this effect one of the healers and forcing them to pause long enough to remove or wait it out, causing others to blow cd's or pick up the slack.


    as for night blade.. I could see it, though night blades theme is nothing more than being fire/death elementally based.. and night blade already has a ton of goodies, but who knows.. perhaps something like this is coming.. could end up on any soul.


    imo.. having people more aware of debuffs on them rather than mindlessly spamming buttons and ignoring said debuffs could only be a positive in all aspects of play.
    Last edited by Mirimon; 08-20-2012 at 09:28 AM.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    this would be fantastic for raid mechanics.. it's been a long time since I last seen something like this effect one of the healers and forcing them to pause long enough to remove or wait it out, causing others to blow cd's or pick up the slack.
    Runic Feedback? Orb of Suffocation? Maklamos lasers? Rusila chains? Conclave mind control? Oracle's pulse?

    And so on. There are dozens of mechanics that force a healer to do something other than heal for varying periods of time.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7,409

    Default

    It really doesn't sound too bad but its hard to balance.
    Maybe a threshold or 3 second duration and after that the person is immune for 5minutes?

  12. #12
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    meh, my concept was that it would be VERY deep in a soul, so that some silly hybrid couldn't just use it with aoe's, or some other method of making it st only. Not only that.. but cleansable.. it would be that person's own fault for not removing it before mindlessly spamming their heal ability, just as other people are annoyed with "fanout" (like that's the only aoe in the game? stop crying).

    I wouldn't go for a reduction or % of the healing, as that would be nearly pointless and for the most part.. no different than an ordinary debuff/leach ability. Having a 20% chance to have an 8 second debuff that is removable means in the pvp world it will only be an issue for a very short period of time. How many assassins do you see flying about in those massive groups of pvp? None, because they are forced to look for people straggling or wondering about on their own. This would provide a unique dynamic, allowing them to infiltrate the supporting lines and put a hurt on their functions, not to solo people with. I think by also making it chaotic in the regards of having it effect friendly players attempting to use a leaching skill on the infected target, so yeah, those silly fanout kids with fellblades would end up hurting themselves if they hit the wrong one.
    Essentially, it can be OP as ****, because it's deep in a tree that's not currently popular in group PvP.

    Seems legit. Fulminate's pretty sweet, too.

    A reduced percentage is certainly effective BECAUSE IT IS ALSO A 100% OUTGOING HEAL DEBUFF. If it suddenly turns a 3k heal into a 3k nuke, and gets applied, say, at the tail end of a big cast, then the reaction time option is out the window and, congrats, you just got a guy killed through the use of a passive ability.
    Last edited by Kyera; 08-20-2012 at 04:35 PM.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  13. #13
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    Can't believe I missed the freaking edit window by, like, eight seconds. Here's the rest of my post:

    Hell, if the cleric is trying to keep themselves alive through pressure, the last thing you need is a passively-applied ability that can be burned under a pile of debuffs/DoTs and is even more than a 100% heal debuff. Abilities should punish you for failing to respond/react to them -- this is why Storm Shackle doesn't kill you in one tick, but it will mess you up if you keep going, or why MB doesn't ruin a raid if someone casts before CL or another AoE cleanse effect is popped but DOES wreck your raid if your healers don't respond to it within a couple of casts.

    If you honestly don't get how ridiculous 100% debuffs are, boot up Wrath of Heroes and fight a marauder while playing a healer. The marauder's debuff is 7 seconds (10s talented), so that should give you an idea.


    Edit: Oh, and as a new raid ability, it just becomes another "don't press buttons until the debuff is gone" mechanic.
    Last edited by Kyera; 08-20-2012 at 04:42 PM.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  14. #14
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    haha, i enjoyed it actually, but yeah, I can see all your points.. but really, there are no worries for pvp, since pvp heals come pre nerfed right?

    Be honest.. in pvp people seldom even care what debuffs/dots/bleeds are on them and simply keep spamming away in the hopes of defeating the opponent first our outhealing all the potential damage(not hard to do against most rogues.. unless it's that sab they ignored..). also.. not sure how making something st only and/or putting it DEEP in a tree would make it op.. especially for souls people do not go deep in for group pvp.

    I just wan't to see people not ignoring things soo much.. be more reactive. I could have sworn people were sick of the spamfest that is the current game.. from blaming rogues for fanout to mashing generic aoe heal button.. (still don't get the fanout hatred.. if it wasn't that they would cry about weapon flare.. or twin strike, etc etc.. everybody has spamable aoe just like the others do..).. anyways just was thinking of things that might throw a wrench into the works per se.. and no, I see a vast difference from a healing debuff, as this would have potentially serious ramifications against his entire group for not paying attention.. .. hm.. perhaps make it a stealth attack opener only?


    as it stands for raids.. it really isn't often that we have people doing anything other than pew pew, heal heal..no matter the fight..as players we usually find ways to dps/heal through said mechanic.
    Last edited by Mirimon; 08-20-2012 at 06:12 PM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    haha, i enjoyed it actually, but yeah, I can see all your points.. but really, there are no worries for pvp, since pvp heals come pre nerfed right?
    I don't even know where to begin on this.

    Here's a fun one: what if you land this on a Chloromancer, and that Chloromancer pops Essence Surge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    Be honest.. in pvp people seldom even care what debuffs/dots/bleeds are on them and simply keep spamming away in the hopes of defeating the opponent first our outhealing all the potential damage(not hard to do against most rogues.. unless it's that sab they ignored..). also.. not sure how making something st only and/or putting it DEEP in a tree would make it op.. especially for souls people do not go deep in for group pvp.
    a) People do care what debuffs/DoTs/bleeds are on them; most of the **** isn't cleansable, and some of it cleanses poorly (i.e. here's 10 stacks, one cleanse removes one stack), but the critical stuff (which currently consists of cleansable healing debuffs and Dominator debuffs) does get attention from the players who aren't pants-on-head ******ed. The people most apt to just spam buttons and try to 'race' someone are the people playing dps classes who CANNOT do anything about the things that are on them, except for withdrawing or playing defensive, and the good ones already do while the bad ones usually are in the process of overextending out of heal range anyway.

    b) If I put an ability in 51 Warlord that essentially said "20% chance on hit to kill someone", I'd wager Warlord would suddenly become a playable soul. Having things deep in an unpopular tree does not allow you to make them ridiculous. Having a belief like this hints that you clearly lack fundamentals regarding PvP dynamics and game balance, which likely means this discussion goes nowhere.

    c) You still didn't define how "deep" this talent is. Put it anywhere but 51 points into Assassin and I can give you an OP as **** build that can go on a train and be an "Iwinbutton" debuff bot. Heck, even at 51 I can probably put something solid together, especially if it isn't restricted to melee-only. You've never really done anything beyond provide an ability, completely misjudge its potency and effectiveness, and tell us it'll be "deep" in Assassin, which is an unpopular group play tree. That's as far as we got in the discussion of the ability itself and where it is located. Give me some details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    I just wan't to see people not ignoring things soo much.. be more reactive.
    Again, the healers are the people that usually have to be cognisant of these things, because these are the things that get them and their raid killed and, with a couple of exceptions, they are the only ones who can actually do something about it. The good ones are already astute cleansers and are familiar with the problems with cleansing. The bad ones go 0-22 in a BG their team wins, because they already fail at every single other reactionary element, like positioning and pre-healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    I could have sworn people were sick of the spamfest that is the current game..
    This proposal doesn't solve any of the LEGITIMATE complained-about "spamfest" problems. Complaints about healers "spamming AoE heal" are from players who are just as oblivious to the game dynamic as people complaining about rogues "spamming Fan Out" and winning all of the things. Fan Out is good in a couple of niche situations and niche builds, yet it gets praised as the greatest thing since sliced bread by ****ty rogues and people who would make ****ty rogues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    and no, I see a vast difference from a healing debuff, as this would have potentially serious ramifications against his entire group for not paying attention.. .. hm.. perhaps make it a stealth attack opener only?
    There's a fast difference from a healing debuff, in that this is miles better than any heal debuff in the game. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the ability you're presenting, it's a 100% heal debuff -- because it turns the healing done entirely into damage, removing all healing -- and it ALSO does 100% of that amount in damage to the target. Instead of having a 3k heal fire for 3k, it instead does 3k damage (perhaps mitigated by valor/magic resistance, which might make it a little more reasonable).

    It's also more powerful than a ST heal debuff because it's a 100% OUTGOING heal debuff, which instead damages everyone it hits. In short, it's patently ridiculous as an passive buff that can reapplied and has a 20% proc rate. It's far more powerful than VM/FB/LW, and that's saying something.

    [Just so we're clear, under my percentage suggestion that caused you to balk, it's still a 100% heal debuff, but it doesn't convert ALL of the damage -- instead of healing 100, it heals zero and does x damage instead, where x is the % "siphon" -- and is used-activated instead of a proc. This is where something like having it be a stealth opener with an 8s duration suddenly makes it seem far more reasonable.]
    Last edited by Kyera; 08-20-2012 at 06:49 PM.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts