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Thread: Saboteurs in PVP, more Utility than actual DPS?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Saboteurs in PVP, more Utility than actual DPS?

    I've noticed a problem with my DPS.

    1) I either die too fast to spend the combo points I spent building (without Rapid Setup of course), which is problematic as my combo builders do not deal damage.

    2) The enemy dies faster than I can build a significant amount of combo points on him, and then detonate it.

    This makes me feel kind of gimped compared to other rogues whose combo builders themselves deal actual DPS. I wish there was a skill point that made charges automatically detonate when you or your target died, but I doubt that would happen.

    That being said, I do feel like I have a lot of utility with my silence/snare bombs.

    I also have a ton of AOE damage, but it is hard to use the AOE damage because:

    1) Targets die too fast to build combo points/detonate in team fights.

    2) I die too fast to get a proper rotation off in team fights.

    I'm sure there are Saboteurs out there who are successful, but I have trouble feeling like a legitimate threat most of the time (even when I'm topping the charts in killing blows, it's because I used a lengthy CD to kill steal a target that was almost dead anyways).
    Last edited by AlphaUnicorn; 07-11-2012 at 03:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara Kanabull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaUnicorn View Post
    I've noticed a problem with my DPS.

    1) I either die too fast to spend the combo points I spent building (without Rapid Setup of course), which is problematic as my combo builders do not deal damage.

    2) The enemy dies faster than I can build a significant amount of combo points on him, and then detonate it.

    This makes me feel kind of gimped compared to other rogues whose combo builders themselves deal actual DPS. I wish there was a skill point that made charges automatically detonate when you or your target died, but I doubt that would happen.

    That being said, I do feel like I have a lot of utility with my silence/snare bombs.

    I also have a ton of AOE damage, but it is hard to use the AOE damage because:

    1) Targets die too fast to build combo points/detonate in team fights.

    2) I die too fast to get a proper rotation off in team fights.

    I'm sure there are Saboteurs out there who are successful, but I have trouble feeling like a legitimate threat most of the time (even when I'm topping the charts in killing blows, it's because I used a lengthy CD to kill steal a target that was almost dead anyways).
    Thats because sab are OP and need to be nerfed.
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  3. #3
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Saboteurs, by design, are a backloaded, burst-driven class. Lamenting the fact that you have to set things up for this backload, which is contingent on a) you not dying and b) your target not dying, and comparing it to other perhaps more sustained dps + finisher classes makes my brain hurt.

    Honestly, if you want something that steadily deals damage, play one of five other rogue souls (Ranger, Marksman, Assassin, Nightblade, Bladedancer). Not all five of them are necessarily SUPER EFFECTIVE in PvP (I'd say three are, for sure), but they're dps souls that play the way you want to play. Saboteur plays differently, by design.
    Last edited by Kyera; 07-11-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Saboteurs, by design, are a backloaded, burst-driven class. Lamenting the fact that you have to set things up for this backload, which is contingent on a) you not dying and b) your target not dying, and comparing it to other perhaps more sustained dps + finisher classes makes my brain hurt.

    Honestly, if you want something that steadily deals damage, play one of five other rogue souls (Ranger, Marksman, Assassin, Nightblade, Bladedancer). Not all five of them are necessarily SUPER EFFECTIVE in PvP (I'd say three are, for sure), but they're dps souls that play the way you want to play. Saboteur plays differently, by design.

    I hate to be "That guy" but i pvp on seastone daily and tbh i have never once come across a good sab. ive seen good players useing sab..but it just doesnt work out. I consistantly top kb / dmg or come within the top 3 and i use 51 nb or 51 sin.

    This is all assumed vs top end players that are geared (1400+ valor)
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  5. #5
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Be that guy, then. It's not a 1v1 pew pew dps spec. It's not a spam stealing spec.

    It's a farm the piss out of people in AoE situations spec with a side dose of backloaded damage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yayoh View Post
    I hate to be "That guy" but i pvp on seastone daily and tbh i have never once come across a good sab. ive seen good players useing sab..but it just doesnt work out. I consistantly top kb / dmg or come within the top 3 and i use 51 nb or 51 sin.

    This is all assumed vs top end players that are geared (1400+ valor)
    Ah, sorry. I haven't been playing Sab lately.
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  7. #7
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    You guys are nuts. In lots of cases sabs are insane. A good sab with 4pc bonus could burst you down in not time. That being said, some war and clerics do pose a problem because they can heal past the DOTS or just tear you up real quick. Carpet Bomb Adhesive bomb x4 you can kite people around. Its utility isnt too great but if you are good at it you can own **** and be an excellent addition to any team. Especially when you are paired with another sab buddy.

    Having Rapid setup every 30 sec and carpet bomb is insane. Such a nice treat.
    Last edited by Neonaraj; 07-12-2012 at 07:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neonaraj View Post
    You guys are nuts. In lots of cases sabs are insane. A good sab with 4pc bonus could burst you down in not time. That being said, some war and clerics do pose a problem because they can heal past the DOTS or just tear you up real quick. Carpet Bomb Adhesive bomb x4 you can kite people around. Its utility isnt too great but if you are good at it you can own **** and be an excellent addition to any team. Especially when you are paired with another sab buddy.

    Having Rapid setup every 30 sec and carpet bomb is insane. Such a nice treat.
    And yet my best ever kb streak of nearly 100 was done on a non-sab. And in high valor scenarios, I've yet to lose while duking it out with a sab, assuming I have one of three break free effects in my pvp loadout available.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Well sure, Sab isn't the best 1v1 class but it can still be pretty great if you don't play it like you're a warrior.
    Chucklehead

  10. #10
    Ascendant micshaz's Avatar
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    if you did it right you wouldn't have to deal with lost charges, so yeah

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    A few tips. 1. Load up charges on a guy who will stya with a clump of people and be tough to kill (healers are good targets). 2. Stay hidden. Keep High Explosives up at all costs. This bleed really hurts. 3. It seems from your post you use Detonate. Don't do that. Det if need be, but most of the time use frag bombs, reapply time bomb, and use your utility. Detonate should not be a priority.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    And yet my best ever kb streak of nearly 100 was done on a non-sab. And in high valor scenarios, I've yet to lose while duking it out with a sab, assuming I have one of three break free effects in my pvp loadout available.
    Well obviously, lol. Did you expect Sab to do excel in either of those situations?

    That's like saying "Yeah well, I have yet to lose a ranged DPS race to a 51 sin".
    ~Quiescent

  13. #13
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Well obviously, lol. Did you expect Sab to do excel in either of those situations?

    That's like saying "Yeah well, I have yet to lose a ranged DPS race to a 51 sin".
    You'd have to read my reply in the context of the person whom I was replying to.

    The guy was making sab out to be the end-all be-all pvp rogue spec of choice, when its just a niche spec suitable for one specific purpose.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  14. #14
    Telaran Snores's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yayoh View Post
    I hate to be "That guy" but i pvp on seastone daily and tbh i have never once come across a good sab. ive seen good players useing sab..but it just doesnt work out. I consistantly top kb / dmg or come within the top 3 and i use 51 nb or 51 sin.

    This is all assumed vs top end players that are geared (1400+ valor)
    This is going to be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm usually top 5 in damage done and/or top 5 in killing blows on a given match.

    With the exception of being placed on a severly bad team with no teamwork and getting *****, I rarely do "average"

    On top of that, I feel the bombs play a significant psychological advantage as well.

    Teams rarely want to walk through your bombs if spread out, and tends to hold back the large group of players (sans some tough warriors) this gives some time for your team to catch up and advance.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by yayoh View Post
    I hate to be "That guy" but i pvp on seastone daily and tbh i have never once come across a good sab. ive seen good players useing sab..but it just doesnt work out. I consistantly top kb / dmg or come within the top 3 and i use 51 nb or 51 sin.

    This is all assumed vs top end players that are geared (1400+ valor)
    You nuts, sabs always top the DMG and KB count as far as rogues go. I guess no one knows how to play on your group of shards.
    Last edited by Neonaraj; 07-18-2012 at 06:03 AM.

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