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Thread: GI Stacks - By the Numbers

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    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Default GI Stacks - By the Numbers

    I've been a little curious for a while about the efficacy of the Golem Inductor and have been meaning to take a critical look at some parses. Given the arrival of the new PvP trinket, my curiosity has been further heightened.

    Now, the maximum benefit from the GI is certainly nice - 150 attack power (though unmodifiable by talents/buffs). The issue, as an older man inexplicably sitting in a bathtub might tell you, is keeping it up. Just by observation, I've noticed stacks regularly falling off when using ranger in particular. And from Fiery Spike to High Explosive and similar mechanics, I cringe a little when I see stacks that need to be built up drop.

    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-j...3/GIStacks.jpg

    The parse I looked at was a recent Ituziel kill, with 316 seconds of attacks from myself, including no real gaps in attacks and a few (8) off-CGD finishers. The stacks, of course, ranged from 1-5 and fell off 3 times during the fight. The total number of "stack seconds" was 1078, or an average stack size of 3.411.

    I also looked at a BS parse:

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9.../s761/BSGI.jpg

    207 seconds, twice the stacks fell off, a total of 728 "stack seconds" or 3.517 average size. I was a little surprised to see that second fall off with the long gap afterwards, so I double checked and there didn't appear to be any significant attack disconnect there. I might also look back through some other parses I have saved to see if that's perhaps atypical.

    If others have taken a critical look at their parses for GI stack uptime, I'd certainly be interested in knowing what they found. As it stands, I think that people perhaps underestimate the negative impact that the GI ramp-up time has on its overall average, which is compounded by even intermittent drop-offs.

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    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitnine View Post
    I might also look back through some other parses I have saved to see if that's perhaps atypical.
    I'll probably look in more detail later, but after given a once-over of some the others, it looks like that BS parse was unusual. Generally it looks like 0-1 drop offs with BS on a two to three minute fight. However, the full ramp up to 5 stacks does take 20-30 seconds much of the time.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    ive also been very interested to see if the new pvp trinket is now considered bis for our dps. Keep us updated to see what you find

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    This discussion, while interesting, is largely academic. If you're on any type of serious progression boss, the Conquest trinket is superior for the 30 endurance to go with the 78 full time AP. If you're going for super-parse on a farm boss then a good RNG on Inductor will be your best bet.

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    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    This discussion, while interesting, is largely academic. If you're on any type of serious progression boss, the Conquest trinket is superior for the 30 endurance to go with the 78 full time AP. If you're going for super-parse on a farm boss then a good RNG on Inductor will be your best bet.
    Actually, unless it's GREAT rng the 78 from pvp trinket is still usually greater because that is BASE stats affected by %talents/buffs such as the 25%ap in mm, 15%ap in rs, 15%dex in BD/sab, and 5% all stats from bard buffs. Your normal sin/rs will have 55% bonus AP and 5% bonus str/dex, which puts the pvp trinket at 122.55 AP constant, which would require 3.695 average stack/s uptime on GI to average out, and that's ignoring how bad ramp up time can be as well as the small value of the 34crit (which still has value) AND the endurance, which is useful everywhere.
    Last edited by McWaffles; 07-10-2012 at 03:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    Actually, unless it's GREAT rng the 78 from pvp trinket is still usually greater because that is BASE stats affected by %talents/buffs such as the 25%ap in mm, 15%ap in rs, 15%dex in BD/sab, and 5% all stats from bard buffs. Your normal sin/rs will have 55% bonus AP and 5% bonus str/dex, which puts the pvp trinket at 122.55 AP constant, which would require 3.695 average stack/s uptime on GI to average out, and that's ignoring how bad ramp up time can be as well as the small value of the 34crit (which still has value) AND the endurance, which is useful everywhere.
    damn edit time-out, it's better than 4.085 stack/s uptime, not 3.695. first edit was me forgetting annihilate.

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    RIFT Guide Writer
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    I haven't used my golem inductor after getting the pvp trinket. NB is the only build where I would still use GI but I have not been using NB on any bosses for a while.

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    I looked at a couple of my parses from 1-2 weeks ago and running BS has given me ~75% uptime with 5 stacks. Running Ranger has given me about 45-50% uptime with 5 stacks. Definitely well below the threshold of using GI vs. PvP trinket in either spec.

    As a side note, I've noticed my GI can proc a stack as early as 2 seconds, but 3-5 seconds is the usual stack proc for me. It can take longer or the stacks just falls off, but when I'm getting some good rng, that's the usual time between procs. The GI (AMoP and other similar trinkets) should probably get a reduced ICD and a significant boost to proc rate, or at least make it so the ID versions of these trinkets should have a big boost.
    Last edited by Adastra; 07-10-2012 at 04:38 AM.
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    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adastra View Post
    I looked at a couple of my parses from 1-2 weeks ago and running BS has given me ~75% uptime with 5 stacks. Running Ranger has given me about 45-50% uptime with 5 stacks. Definitely well below the threshold of using GI vs. PvP trinket in either spec.

    As a side note, I've noticed my GI can proc a stack as early as 2 seconds, but 3-5 seconds is the usual stack proc for me. It can take longer or the stacks just falls off, but when I'm getting some good rng, that's the usual time between procs. The GI (AMoP and other similar trinkets) should probably get a reduced ICD and a significant boost to proc rate, or at least make it so the ID versions of these trinkets should have a big boost.
    ICD isn't longer than 1s, but proc rate is somewhere in the realm of 5%.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    GI (and every trinket like it for every class) should have a 100% proc rate with a 5-7 second ICD. As things stand now, it goes in the bank.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 07-11-2012 at 12:11 PM.

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    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    If it's anything like AMoP, ICD would probably be 5 seconds.

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    From what I've found, GI has something like a 0.001 second ICD, short enough that it can proc off consecutive attacks (for example cornered beast which hits every 0.5s), but long enough so that it won't proc off simultaneous attacks like aoes. I've come up with an approximation for the uptime of GI based on the number of eligible attacks in 20 seconds which seems to be fairly accurate compared to simulations I've run, and it provides around 100-140 AP on average for warriors depending on spec/rotation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownsMageNerfDelivery View Post
    If it's anything like AMoP, ICD would probably be 5 seconds.
    I checked a combatlog from a mage in guild and AMoP seems to get the shaft here with a 5 sec ICD, unless it's somehow coincidential that his AMoP never procced shorter than 5 sec of another proc. GI however, either does not have an ICD, or just short enough like one of the above posters said to prevent super stackage during big AoE's.

    My combatlog for GI has the shortest proc being within 2 seconds of a previous proc, of course it does not suggest anything other than AMoP seems to have really bad proc/ICD in comparison I guess.
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    So is it true the AP from Conquest trinket is added before talents and buffs? And Golem Inductor is added after? (or unmodifiable) w/e

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neonaraj View Post
    So is it true the AP from Conquest trinket is added before talents and buffs? And Golem Inductor is added after? (or unmodifiable) w/e
    Yes, the PVP one is just a stat stick and goes on your base stats.

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