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Thread: No Assassin love?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default No Assassin love?

    I'm curious and thought I'd ask. Where is all the Assassin love? I'm currently playing a Rogue and loving this spec, mixed with a little Riftblade and Blademaster. I can breeze through questing by stealthing directly to my objectives, can burn down any single opponent, can do groups with the right planning and even found PvP enjoyable thinking my poison is doing the heavy lifting while I have the option to dictate the encounters and even leave them if need be.

    So, I thought I'd read up and get some pointers on the forums only to not find there are hardly any post about them at all. Seems all the post are about Bards, Rangers or other flavors. I couldn't find one Assassin guide! I find that suprising since Assassin seems to be what Rogues are all about. Am I missing something? Am I gimped and don't even know it?

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Ok, I think I just realized Sin is short for Assassin...LOL That would explain it.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    There's actually more threads about it then normal. The best full sin spec I've found is 51sin-10mm-5rs.

    The reason there's less posts about it is it underperforms compared to other dps specs. There's really no reason to go higher then 32 points for impale outside of pvp or unless you need a poison for a certain encounter.

    The sin soul has no aoe and is less ST then other dps souls. It needs work for higher assassin, but lower assassin is good. 32sin-20rs-14mm is our highest ST dps build. It gets everything good in the assassin tree (save serpent strike) with all passive boosts from other souls. The 20rs-14mm ends up a larger boost then the pvp slanted talents left over after 32 points.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    There's actually more threads about it then normal. The best full sin spec I've found is 51sin-10mm-5rs.

    The reason there's less posts about it is it underperforms compared to other dps specs. There's really no reason to go higher then 32 points for impale outside of pvp or unless you need a poison for a certain encounter.

    The sin soul has no aoe and is less ST then other dps souls. It needs work for higher assassin, but lower assassin is good. 32sin-20rs-14mm is our highest ST dps build. It gets everything good in the assassin tree (save serpent strike) with all passive boosts from other souls. The 20rs-14mm ends up a larger boost then the pvp slanted talents left over after 32 points.
    32sin-20rs-14mm would be useless for WFs. You rarely get Fervor and this spec consumes tonnes of energy.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Biggest issue with Assassin is how cheesy permastealth and Slip Away are. They really should see a PVP nerf, so the soul can finally get buffed beyond what it is right now, and make 51 viable.]

    Edit: But yeah, our best STDPS PVE build contains Assassin. But like Mayi said, practically anything past 32 Sin really isn't worth speccing for.
    Last edited by Zaros; 06-14-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Biggest issue with Assassin is how cheesy permastealth and Slip Away are. They really should see a PVP nerf, so the soul can finally get buffed beyond what it is right now, and make 51 viable.]

    Edit: But yeah, our best STDPS PVE build contains Assassin. But like Mayi said, practically anything past 32 Sin really isn't worth speccing for.
    Sin still suffers from the dreadful dot syndrome and just like the other dot classes will never be good since we have hot and fast burst heals that can undo most of their work.

    The only thing they have going for it is the perma stealth and slip away.

    They would need to change the whole concept of what they want sin to be, or change the meta to where dots matter (and it last more than a week like both times they increased valor).

    Until then they are stuck with how they are IMO, good at the nonexistent wpvp.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Sin still suffers from the dreadful dot syndrome and just like the other dot classes will never be good since we have hot and fast burst heals that can undo most of their work.

    The only thing they have going for it is the perma stealth and slip away.

    They would need to change the whole concept of what they want sin to be, or change the meta to where dots matter (and it last more than a week like both times they increased valor).

    Until then they are stuck with how they are IMO, good at the nonexistent wpvp.
    Except they're not even good for wPvP :/
    Seriously, so many Rogues run it for open world on Seastone (which actually is very existent btw) but it's so awful. MM/RS is better in honestly every way shape and form.
    ~Quiescent

  8. #8
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Sin still suffers from the dreadful dot syndrome and just like the other dot classes will never be good since we have hot and fast burst heals that can undo most of their work.

    The only thing they have going for it is the perma stealth and slip away.

    They would need to change the whole concept of what they want sin to be, or change the meta to where dots matter (and it last more than a week like both times they increased valor).

    Until then they are stuck with how they are IMO, good at the nonexistent wpvp.
    I've been playing a rogue for roughly the last 8 years and would be digusted if permastealth and slip away were nerfed or removed. They could fix 51 sin and make it viable by removing the cooldown on backstab (outside of assassinate it is the only positional attack in the game, requires melee range and does only comparative damage to similar CD'd abilities from other trees, it can still keep its energy cost), give Serpent Strike a 33/66/100% (remove the talent that increases poison damage by 5/10/15%) chance to apply a debuff reducing armor by 70% for 10 seconds (and increase the CD of SS to 20s) and maybe most importantly, adding a new poison that has the standard base 20% chance of applying a debuff that reduces healing DONE by 40%.
    Unrated -- Now show me on this doll where the mean rogue touched you.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanresu View Post
    I've been playing a rogue for roughly the last 8 years and would be digusted if permastealth and slip away were nerfed or removed. They could fix 51 sin and make it viable by removing the cooldown on backstab (outside of assassinate it is the only positional attack in the game, requires melee range and does only comparative damage to similar CD'd abilities from other trees, it can still keep its energy cost), give Serpent Strike a 33/66/100% (remove the talent that increases poison damage by 5/10/15%) chance to apply a debuff reducing armor by 70% for 10 seconds (and increase the CD of SS to 20s) and maybe most importantly, adding a new poison that has the standard base 20% chance of applying a debuff that reduces healing DONE by 40%.
    Well I'm not sure on the exact implementation of it, but thinking about it assassin is a dot based melee build with no aoe or defensive cooldowns. There's no reason why it shouldn't be the highest ST dps spec in the game. Right now warrior aoe builds do more dps then 51 sin in pve, it's silly.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  10. #10
    Champion Wifeagro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Well I'm not sure on the exact implementation of it, but thinking about it assassin is a dot based melee build with no aoe or defensive cooldowns. There's no reason why it shouldn't be the highest ST dps spec in the game. Right now warrior aoe builds do more dps then 51 sin in pve, it's silly.
    This is very very disheartening. Ive just returned to rift and the main reason why i left was this issue and the dumbing down of content. I dont like playing ranged DPS rogue and ive always enjoyed ST melee dps or a support class like bard. both souls are the least usefull for 5 man groups.

    I dont understand how trion could make such a rich game and completely miss the pulse of one of the base classes in any game. assassin in every MMO has been the big heavy hitter with low survivablity relying on hit and run tactics . currently the soul is a meager melee DOT class that can't compete with plate mail warriors . they are better then what they were at launch for sure but far from what a ST DPS role they should be. My MM soul can out DPS my melee souls with a 1 key macro. As a returner i think i will just reroll i dont think the issue will ever be addressed due to trion being afraid melle will be a stealth 1 shot class in PVP. Currently and healer can out heal a melee rogue anyhow, dont know what trion is afraid of.
    Last edited by Wifeagro; 06-15-2012 at 06:55 AM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    The assassin is spec'd out and designed to be an out-of-stealth 1v1 killer (effectiveness in practice aside, that's the design). It's not designed to be the highest sustained single-dps build. Whether that's right or wrong is another matter, but the design is readily apparent. *shrug*
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    The assassin is spec'd out and designed to be an out-of-stealth 1v1 killer (effectiveness in practice aside, that's the design). It's not designed to be the highest sustained single-dps build. Whether that's right or wrong is another matter, but the design is readily apparent. *shrug*
    The problem is that it's not an effective 1v1 killer. There are several other builds much more capable of being a 1v1 killer and they are also better at group play. That said, nothing is designed around 1v1, so I don't see why sin should be any different. Give it the slight damage buff and heal debuff I mentioned, which are not major changes and do ont affect the playstyle of 51 sin, and it would be far more effective.
    Unrated -- Now show me on this doll where the mean rogue touched you.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanresu View Post
    The problem is that it's not an effective 1v1 killer. There are several other builds much more capable of being a 1v1 killer and they are also better at group play. That said, nothing is designed around 1v1, so I don't see why sin should be any different. Give it the slight damage buff and heal debuff I mentioned, which are not major changes and do ont affect the playstyle of 51 sin, and it would be far more effective.
    I think don't give it a healing debuff. It not having a healing debuff will allow 51 sin to be buffed to where it should be without overpowering it in pvp. After all, without a healing debuff the dps could be almost doubled and still be gimp against healers.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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    I think, a problem with Assassin is it has a fair few of it's talents based around it's stealth openers (or buffing it's damage after using a stealth opener) but outside of Slip Away every two minutes no real way to utilize these in PvE.

    I mention this a while ago but I wonder if giving Assassin a cooldown ability near the end of the roots that would tempoarily allow it to use those stealth attacks outside of stealth. It might be a way to bring those abilities into it's PvE game. Problem being it could be potentially overpowering in PvP (I don't PvP so guess I can't really say either way there. Heh.)

    (46pts) Blindside - The Rogue may use abilities that would normally require the Rogue to be stealthed. Lasts for 5 seconds or three uses of Stealth abilities. xx second cooldown.

    The idea being that every so often the Assassin could burst a combo of Jagged Strike>Assassinate>Assassinate and give itself the Cloak and Dagger buff for some extra DPS.
    Last edited by Kedon; 06-15-2012 at 02:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    I think don't give it a healing debuff. It not having a healing debuff will allow 51 sin to be buffed to where it should be without overpowering it in pvp. After all, without a healing debuff the dps could be almost doubled and still be gimp against healers.
    It's kind of strange really, out of all the rogue souls, assassin is the one you would MOST expect to have a healing debuff, via poison. Honestly, that one change alone (making it usable in a 51 point build) would go a long, long way.
    Unrated -- Now show me on this doll where the mean rogue touched you.

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