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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Tablets, Fervor, and Energy - Problems and Solutions

  1. #76
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I dislike the idea of needing a rift consumable in order to test my rotation on a dummy, which is why I think it's best to just remove the reliance on cost-reduction altogether.
    Are you kidding? That would be a dream to not need them in raids. Tablet price would also be super cheap by then.

  2.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #77
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    While there is a lot of passion out there about modifying other aspects of energy regen the one that I'm going to approve and push through for now is as follows:

    Rogue energy regen will be changed from 23 per second to 24 per second.
    Tablets will have energy regeneration removed from them.
    This gives you the effective energy regen of a character using a tablet - for free and all the time.

    We will not be addressing concerns regarding fervor or other energy regen buffs at this moment in time.

    Daglar
    Lead Game Designer: Rift

  3. #78
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    I remember doing the math at one point for bloodstalker and NB which are the most starved builds and ended up with around 27 energy regeneration needed with fervor and tablet to not be starved with them. I think I used 50ms latency and regular rotations for the math but I don't have it saved anywhere anymore unless it's in my post history. 27 regen with fervor vs 23 regen and no fervor is a massive difference and means we are a lot of the time just standing around waiting. It's so bad that for example NB can't even be used at all without fervor. It's also not some extra performance compared to other callings we get from fervor, it's a requirement for us to not be way behind everyone else.

  4. #79
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I remember doing the math at one point for bloodstalker and NB which are the most starved builds and ended up with around 27 energy regeneration needed with fervor and tablet to not be starved with them. I think I used 50ms latency and regular rotations for the math but I don't have it saved anywhere anymore unless it's in my post history. 27 regen with fervor vs 23 regen and no fervor is a massive difference and means we are a lot of the time just standing around waiting. It's so bad that for example NB can't even be used at all without fervor. It's also not some extra performance compared to other callings we get from fervor, it's a requirement for us to not be way behind everyone else.
    See my napkin math above. Look okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  5. #80
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    While there is a lot of passion out there about modifying other aspects of energy regen the one that I'm going to approve and push through for now is as follows:

    Rogue energy regen will be changed from 23 per second to 24 per second.
    Tablets will have energy regeneration removed from them.
    This gives you the effective energy regen of a character using a tablet - for free and all the time.

    We will not be addressing concerns regarding fervor or other energy regen buffs at this moment in time.

    Daglar
    Lead Game Designer: Rift
    Hallelujah!

  6. #81
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Are you kidding? That would be a dream to not need them in raids. Tablet price would also be super cheap by then.
    The fact that it's a major improvement over the current design doesn't mean that it's good design. Would I dramatically prefer it to the way it is now? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that's the specific change that should go through.

  7. #82
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    While there is a lot of passion out there about modifying other aspects of energy regen the one that I'm going to approve and push through for now is as follows:

    Rogue energy regen will be changed from 23 per second to 24 per second.
    Tablets will have energy regeneration removed from them.
    This gives you the effective energy regen of a character using a tablet - for free and all the time.

    We will not be addressing concerns regarding fervor or other energy regen buffs at this moment in time.

    Daglar
    Lead Game Designer: Rift
    While I'm glad I won't have to spend hundreds of platinum on raids the next few days I'd like the root of this issue adressed.

    I'm not going to denounce this small victory ,but you are adressing a symtom and not the problem.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 05-07-2012 at 01:32 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    See my napkin math above. Look okay?
    You have to adjust for latency since our 1 second gcd is actually 1 second+latency. Other than that it looks fine for a quick calculation.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    While I'm glad I won't have to spend hundreds of platinum on raids the next few days I'd like the root of this issue adressed.

    I'm not going to denounce this small victory ,but you are adressing a symtom and not the problem.
    I don't understand this sentiment, you all seem to want to make fervor/LE have no use at all.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Something like this isn't totally out of the question. When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

    That said, I'm unsure where everyone keeps pulling the number 27 from that I've seen bandied about. Is that trying to take into account fervor as well? Tablet is currently 5 every 5 seconds. That translates to 1 additional energy per second roughly. Which would mean that rogue energy at 24 instead of 23 would be equal to having a tablet on.

    Daglar
    Lead Game Designer: Rift
    Tablets are the clear indicator to many of us that there is a larger problem. That we can have fervor (13% reduction of energy cost) and a tablet up and still be energy starved in single target rotations means we're hopelessly energy starved without them.

    I think 27 comes up a lot because it pops up from several calculations of what our rate needs to be to not be energy starved with just LE. For example most of our 1 CP builders are 30 energy, with a 10% discount that is 27 energy. With one 40 energy 2 CP builder, three 30 energy 1 CP builder and a 20 energy finisher you again get 30 energy per second needed, again with the LE discount it's 27. It may in fact NOT be the right number, but it comes up a lot.

    The larger problem is we don't want to need LE/fervor all the time just to be able to use most of our specs and not have to learn one rotation with nothing, one with LE, another with Fervor and yet another if we have fervor and a tablet. Unless we have a mage with LE for 5-mans we pretty much have to run MM or BD for DPS since ALL other specs fall so far behind due to energy starvation.
    Dummy Foundry rocks. CQ blows. Energy is meh. MORE ROLE SLOTS! Burma shave.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    You have to adjust for latency since our 1 second gcd is actually 1 second+latency. Other than that it looks fine for a quick calculation.
    Ability queue breh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    While I'm glad I won't have to spend hundreds of platinum on raids the next few days I'd like the root of this issue adressed.

    I'm not going to denounce this small victory ,but you are adressing a symtom and not the problem.
    Its not ideal, but it does address the meat of the problem in raids.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    While there is a lot of passion out there about modifying other aspects of energy regen the one that I'm going to approve and push through for now is as follows:

    Rogue energy regen will be changed from 23 per second to 24 per second.
    Tablets will have energy regeneration removed from them.
    This gives you the effective energy regen of a character using a tablet - for free and all the time.

    We will not be addressing concerns regarding fervor or other energy regen buffs at this moment in time.

    Daglar
    Lead Game Designer: Rift
    The devs know about it, a slight buff and my plat is safe.

  13. #88
    Rift Disciple Elge's Avatar
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    I believe in miracles.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalthium View Post
    I don't understand this sentiment, you all seem to want to make fervor/LE have no use at all.
    They should be required for us to spam trick shot AoE. You know, like warriors.
    Dummy Foundry rocks. CQ blows. Energy is meh. MORE ROLE SLOTS! Burma shave.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Ability queue breh.
    Ability queue is affected by latency breh.

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