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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Tablets, Fervor, and Energy - Problems and Solutions

  1. #61
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Something like this isn't totally out of the question. When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

    That said, I'm unsure where everyone keeps pulling the number 27 from that I've seen bandied about. Is that trying to take into account fervor as well? Tablet is currently 5 every 5 seconds. That translates to 1 additional energy per second roughly. Which would mean that rogue energy at 24 instead of 23 would be equal to having a tablet on.
    Well, keep in mind there are two problems with rogue energy.

    The first is that most specs need tablets to avoid energy starvation. The second is that every spec will run out of energy without fervor/LE, meaning that you can't use those specs in most 5-man groups (and some 10-mans). Which is honestly a waste, because there's plenty of specs (IE Nightblade) which are a lot of fun, but don't see any use outside of raids.

    Basically, if energy is going to be buffed, then it should be buffed to the point that a spec doesn't become largely unuseable in certain group compositions regardless of what would otherwise be ideal for the encounter. It's far more engaging and enjoyable to be able to play the spec that's most effective or most enjoyable, rather than being forced into marksman/bladedancer because nothing else is even useable.

  2. #62
    Rift Disciple Ballistica's Avatar
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    This will now turn into TOTY

    Thread of The Year

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Well, keep in mind there are two problems with rogue energy.

    The first is that most specs need tablets to avoid energy starvation. The second is that every spec will run out of energy without fervor/LE, meaning that you can't use those specs in most 5-man groups (and some 10-mans). Which is honestly a waste, because there's plenty of specs (IE Nightblade) which are a lot of fun, but don't see any use outside of raids.

    Basically, if energy is going to be buffed, then it should be buffed to the point that a spec doesn't become largely unuseable in certain group compositions regardless of what would otherwise be ideal for the encounter. It's far more engaging and enjoyable to be able to play the spec that's most effective or most enjoyable, rather than being forced into marksman/bladedancer because nothing else is even useable.
    Not only do many specs only see light in raid but because the rotation requires fervor+tablet you can't even get any practice with them unless you have a friend sit at the dummy.
    5/8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    --------- my point





    --------- your head
    Guess so; I will admit I am but a simple little man who hates paying for tablets. Oh well. Three cheers for the first dev response regarding energy since...some time I can't remember.
    Last edited by Scrumdiddly; 05-07-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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  5. #65
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    something like:

    ((27 x 5 = 135) + (17x1 = 17)) / 6 seconds = 25.3333 energy per second

    This is using 1cp generators and finishers at 5 cps with fervor.

    ((27 x 3 = 81) + (35x 1 = 35) + (17x1 = 17)) / 5 seconds = 26.6 energy per second
    This is using three 1 cp generators and one 2 cp generator.

    ((27x1 = 27) + (35x2 = 70) + (17x1=17)) / 4 seconds = 28.5 energy per second

    This is using two 2 cp generators and one 1 cp generator ,but is not going to happen frequently due to cds.

    Expose weakness 18 energy / 20 seconds(CD) = .9 energy per second for this ability alone.
    18 energy / 60 seconds = .3 energy per second
    Assuming you are in sin/rs using it only when keeping up anihilate.

    Those two red numbers are what we see most commonly getting around 26.9 energy per second or 27. HTH
    Note: Even with fervor and a tablet 24 energy regen is below our lowest possible energy consuming rotation.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 05-07-2012 at 12:57 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  6. #66
    Rift Disciple Ballistica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Something like this isn't totally out of the question. When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

    That said, I'm unsure where everyone keeps pulling the number 27 from that I've seen bandied about. Is that trying to take into account fervor as well? Tablet is currently 5 every 5 seconds. That translates to 1 additional energy per second roughly. Which would mean that rogue energy at 24 instead of 23 would be equal to having a tablet on.

    Daglar
    Lead Game Designer: Rift
    I really think that class discussion with your guys should be preceded with a web conference/conf call/whatever with Rogue class experts from the community (Mayi/Gyle/Puandro/Dun/Zyz etc no flames on the list please just throwing out names I could think of while under the influence of strong margaritas).

    That discussion will server several functions. Repair a bit the relationship between the Rogue community and Trion/our lead, provide unambiguous back and forth communication (conf call is best), let the devs/leads explain their overall philosophy and then have a productive discussion on how to addresses the major issues.

    That meeting should also turn into a monthly discussion in the same format with a revolving list of end-users that cover all aspects of Rogue. One hour a month to go over concerns/issues/ideas is a great way to engage with your customers. Same should happen for all other classes. Every quarter the class reps pick one person to join in a multi-class call.

    People above should clear out your PM lists for when your invite is sent.
    Last edited by Ballistica; 05-07-2012 at 12:51 PM.

  7. #67
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Honestly, I'd be fine with a more 0-net-change approach if it simplified the balance concerns. 1 - Add tablet energy gain to rogue's baseline. 2 - Make tablets give the energy reduction of LE, non-stacking with LE/Fervor.

    In raids, just removes the plat you're spending on tablets. And I'd still grab a lesser number to pop for soloing/dungeons/dummy testing that's less painful.

  8. #68
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitnine View Post
    In raids, just removes the plat you're spending on tablets. And I'd still grab a lesser number to pop for soloing/dungeons/dummy testing that's less painful.
    I dislike the idea of needing a rift consumable in order to test my rotation on a dummy, which is why I think it's best to just remove the reliance on cost-reduction altogether.

  9. #69
    Rift Disciple Harlan Nimue's Avatar
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    Scrat (Gold Leader of the Attack Squirrel Squadron) will not let go of his tablet easily!

    (see sig)

    P8, 5/8 ID, HK Conq 11/11 (gear)
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  10. #70
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    something like:

    ((27 x 5 = 135) + (17x1 = 17)) / 6 seconds = 25.3333 energy per second

    This is using 1cp generators and finishers at 5 cps with fervor.

    ((27 x 3 = 81) + (35x 1 = 35) + (17x1 = 17)) / 5 seconds = 26.6 energy per second
    This is using three 1 cp generators and one 2 cp generator.

    ((27x1 = 27) + (35x2 = 70) + (17x1=17)) / 4 seconds = 28.5 energy per second

    This is using two 2 cp generators and one 1 cp generator ,but is not going to happen frequently due to cds.

    Expose weakness 18 energy / 20 seconds(CD) = .9 energy per second for this ability alone.
    18 energy / 60 seconds = .3 energy per second
    Assuming you are in sin/rs using it only when keeping up anihilate.

    Those two red numbers are what we see most commonly getting around 26.9 energy per second or 27. HTH
    Note: Even with fervor and a tablet 24 energy regen is below our lowest possible energy consuming rotation.
    ((30 x 3 = 90) + (40x 1 = 40) + (20x1 = 20)) / 5 seconds = 30 energy per second
    Expose Weakness 20 energy / 20 seconds = 1 energy per second

    FWIW I think something like this is how the 32 energy per second for rogues getting comparable energy regen to warrior's power regen number was achieved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  11. #71
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    The best solution is a skype chat room, with whoever from Trion, and those who know a lot about our calling.






    Good luck getting them to buy-in though, already tried.

  12. #72
    Rift Disciple Harlan Nimue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokie View Post
    The best solution is a skype chat room, with whoever from Trion, and those who know a lot about our calling.

    Good luck getting them to buy-in though, already tried.
    I will be sure to copy 8000 pages of logs, Kokie...for later posting when the drama is needed!

    (crossthread points?)
    Last edited by Harlan Nimue; 05-07-2012 at 01:18 PM.

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  13. #73
    Rift Disciple mich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Something like this isn't totally out of the question. When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

    That said, I'm unsure where everyone keeps pulling the number 27 from that I've seen bandied about. Is that trying to take into account fervor as well? Tablet is currently 5 every 5 seconds. That translates to 1 additional energy per second roughly. Which would mean that rogue energy at 24 instead of 23 would be equal to having a tablet on.

    Daglar
    Lead Game Designer: Rift
    Keep in mind we(rogue) can't have fervor everytime, take a expert dungeon or a master dungeon for exemple. If the healer is a cleric we can play only 51Marskman or we will be starved every 10 sec.

    Just give us a good energy regen boost, energy issue is just a source of frustation for every rogue and you can compare it with mana of caster class, they have virtualy unlimited mana and craftable mana regen pot.

    Rogue have no way to manage energie ( caster are oom after minimum 3-4 minutes of fight, rogue are starved after 10 sec), no craftable energy regen pot ( and i'm pretty bored to farm the scarwood quest to get my energy pot)

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlan Nimue View Post
    I will be sure to copy 8000 pages of logs, Kokie...for later posting when the drama is needed!

    (crossthread points?)
    It was actually handled via PMs, but good try

  15. #75
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    Zyzyx, with fervor, the cost is at 26, not 27, for abilities that normally costs 30.
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