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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Tablets, Fervor, and Energy - Problems and Solutions

  1. #31
    Rift Disciple Harlan Nimue's Avatar
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    I believe when on PTS (if it isn't anymore?), the T3 consumables acted exactly like regular
    -no persist through death
    -same duration/strength
    +
    -had a 30min+ cooldown (not good for progression)
    -cost Planar charges (also not good for progression...unless you want rogues to recharge every 6-10 pulls)

    P8, 5/8 ID, HK Conq 11/11 (gear)
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  2. #32
    Rift Disciple Nimbis's Avatar
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    At this point I would take it if our energy regen was buffed to the point where we had to use a tablet if Living Energy / Run Speed was being used but not if we are using Fervor.

    Still means I can't practice my specs on a dummy without someone else, but it would be better than our current situation.


    WTB communication on this issue.

  3. #33
    Rift Disciple Nimbis's Avatar
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    Just re-read my post and you know what, forget this. I shouldn't be asking for crumbs when we should be getting cookies.

    Just buff our energy regen period (please).

  4. #34
    Rift Disciple Zenora's Avatar
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    Though I agree tablets should be changed due to the fact that it is very annoying to we loose dps because of this. I don't agree with doing away with Fevor, or for that matter Living Energy. Yes its annoying to have energy starvation outside of raid but that is what other specs are for... I get energy starved in BD I'll admit with no Fevor of Living but I can still push decent dps. I feel that it adds variety to the game myself. Makes having multiple specs worth while which is one of the nice things about this game. If I have Fevor up and I can run tables I'll go Bloodstalker or Nightblade but I also find that in fights where energy starvation is a factor BD does rather well. Yes it may not be our top dps but its comparable.

  5. #35
    Ascendant Mirimon's Avatar
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    the fact is, you can try and starve as a warrior not in a raid with no buff or tablets and it won't happen, I've even seen a few warriors ask for the ability to completly remove the power bar from their UI since they dont look at it...

    It's obvious they have an abundance of energy.. toss some of that over here.

    IMO ALL classes should be starved after x amount of abilities when not on fervor/LE... all classes should have to manage their resources when solo not just us.

    Equality Trion... as much as possible that is what we ask for. The issue is bad enough that the rogues alone, being the only ones needing tablets IN A RAID have all but used up the stockpiles on all their shards..I refuse to spend all day of the next 6 days farming to come up empty in 1 hour of raiding...(kinda glad I often bard instead...) Perhaps part of this fix will be tied to a barding overhaul? Make all classes severely starved when not assisted by support, and then re-scale the contributions bards/archons give to a raid?

  6. #36
    Telaran Gibbyz's Avatar
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    Love all the suggestions, but lets try not to overwhelm Allion or the other devs...baby steps.

    DEVs can we just have tablets last through death?

    May not solve everything but it will
    1. improve QoL for us rogues in raids while still maintaining whatever class vision Trion has for rogues.
    2. easy enough to code
    3. reduce tablet costs

  7. #37
    Rift Disciple Zenora's Avatar
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    My suggestion would be to buff everyone by the energy/mana re-en tablets give and possible add 5 more str/wisdom to the tablet. This way the tablet wouldn't cause a huge dps deficit but would have value.

  8. #38
    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    The problem with tablet availability isn't so much rogues energy but the +19str/wiz that every serious raiding clerics/mage/warrior wants as well. So tablets are being used by the whole raid in many cases and therefore starving the market and rogues in particular.

    Move the +19 Str/Wiz to one of the other consumables perhaps and lessen the load on the tablet market.
    Ambi - Cleric - Apotheosys.


  9. #39
    Telaran Annomren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryon View Post
    What if, instead of hammering the hotkeys or ability buttons, we started to pace the rate at which we executed them?

    I know that this would be EXTREMELY difficult but could be learned. What would the effect be? Well, for one, DPS should remain roughly consistent as we would not be running the well low as fast. Another is that high damage spikes on long encounters would flatten out as well. When you combine this with CP management ideas (ie. 3/4 per finisher) it would help even more.
    I like the idea, I really do, but there is a fatal flaw. Rather than measure the zen like abilities of the rogue masters, it would more heavily measure the latency of their connections. My connection, for example, is typically 170+ ms - enough to gain a couple hundred or so dps from using the ability queue. Others no doubt enjoy sub-30 ms latency, which is certainly approaching as near as immediate as makes no difference - but even they will sometimes be subject to fluctuations latency, which currently they probably do not even notice.

  10. #40
    Rift Disciple Scrumdiddly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usman View Post
    The problem with tablet availability isn't so much rogues energy but the +19str/wiz that every serious raiding clerics/mage/warrior wants as well. So tablets are being used by the whole raid in many cases and therefore starving the market and rogues in particular.

    Move the +19 Str/Wiz to one of the other consumables perhaps and lessen the load on the tablet market.
    Great, so then we can farm air rifts and spend plat on Tempest Mirrors instead? I'm sure within 2 weeks after the change they'd be up on the AH for at least 1p per, too, because Rogues would still be buying them like crack fiends.

    Fixing a class mechanic with a consumable is not the way to go, period.
    Last edited by Scrumdiddly; 05-07-2012 at 09:17 AM.
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  11. #41
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryon View Post
    What if, instead of hammering the hotkeys or ability buttons, we started to pace the rate at which we executed them?

    I know that this would be EXTREMELY difficult but could be learned. What would the effect be? Well, for one, DPS should remain roughly consistent as we would not be running the well low as fast. Another is that high damage spikes on long encounters would flatten out as well. When you combine this with CP management ideas (ie. 3/4 per finisher) it would help even more.

    However, this would be Zen Master like training. In the heat of encounters, our reaction are understandably elevated and as such timing is one of the precepts that tend to fall by the way side.

    A player with the ability to develop their play ability to this level, however, would be God like in any given encounter though. Kind of like watching a real life Martial Arts master moving through a match. Nothing is hurried or frantic. It would all flow from one move to the next with almost effortless appearance.

    The reality though would more likely be that the actual behind the game mechanics will be manipulated in someway.

    ... still wouldn't it be awesome to see someone play at that level?
    Not particularly.

    It would do the same thing that energy starvation does to us right now: namely, that we have to wait a little longer than the GCD between each ability. And at that point, they may as well just increase the rogue GCD a bit since that's what we'll be doing anyways.

    "Sitting there waiting for energy to recharge" is not particularly compelling gameplay. There's a reason that energy starvation sucks, and it's because it means that you're sitting there waiting to be able to do something-- constantly.

    Also, Dunharrow, I think that the idea of "energy management" in the OP needs to be addressed a bit more thoroughly. The problem with the concept is that we can't really "manage" energy, since that would imply that there are choices to be made, and if you do it right, then you don't starve. The unfortunate truth is that there aren't any choices beyond "do your rotation" and "don't do your rotation".

    (As a side note, that's one reason why I like the idea of finishers restoring energy, because it gives us the tools we need to actively control our resource and prevent starvation.)

  12. #42
    Plane Walker TroubleMagnet's Avatar
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    Changing our finishers to be free or refund energy at five combo points for all specs would be nice, but isn't the best solution since it'd leave sab broken since we're using bombs as finishers there instead of detonate. This assumes they're not willing to make bombs true finishers. Just buff our energy regeneration rate so we can use an ability every GCD with full five CP finisher rotations. The test with VoJ to simulate a higher regen rate has shown this would be a very small DPS increase, thanks Zyzyx.

    Change the energy restoration on tablets to something else, warriors already don't need the energy and if they actually fix our energy we won't either. Just throw some more strength or dex on there. Note the T3 tablet would be barely useful since it's cooldown was twice the duration and it still didn't last through death.

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    Dummy Foundry rocks. CQ blows. Energy is meh. MORE ROLE SLOTS! Burma shave.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warking View Post
    I like having to manage power. Yes it sucks to have to use tablets to do competitive dps. Though I go like the system... But there is a flaw.
    Thing is we're not really managing our resource and neither are warriors. We're both restricted by the cooldowns on the skills we use; give us infinite energy and our DPS isn't going to skyrocket (see Zyzyx's post).

    If the energy issue is fixed though what Rogues and Warriors need is some kind of resource dump. I'd like to have to pool energy for a burn phase or juggle my rotation around using some harder hitting skill that'll consume my energy quickly if I do nothing but use it. More skills like Expose Armor (off-GCD, will raise DPS if you have the energy) would be welcomed in every soul.
    Greybriar Guardian Bard

  14. #44
    Rift Disciple Ballistica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlan Nimue View Post
    I believe when on PTS (if it isn't anymore?), the T3 consumables acted exactly like regular
    -no persist through death
    -same duration/strength
    +
    -had a 30min+ cooldown (not good for progression)
    -cost Planar charges (also not good for progression...unless you want rogues to recharge every 6-10 pulls)
    That means they are totally useless for progression.

    Last an hour, persist through death, use a charge (that would mean 3 charges during raid or so, same as a COA).

  15. #45
    Rift Disciple Ballistica's Avatar
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    How about putting an automatic Fervor/tablet aura around the dummies? As an aside from fixing the core issue, but that area should have auto-boost.

    +1 on the thread Dun.

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