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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Tablets, Fervor, and Energy - Problems and Solutions

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adastra View Post
    Or the easiest route, just take out things like tablets and fervor/LE and bump up our natural regen to compensate a bit.
    I very much doubt that AOE healers like DoL spam clerics want their mana costs to be not reduced by 10% or 13%.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sariina View Post
    I very much doubt that AOE healers like DoL spam clerics want their mana costs to be not reduced by 10% or 13%.
    Good point, although, if I recall correctly, wasn't the mana cost increased on DoL and such some patches ago? Perhaps they can undo that mana cost increase if that's the case?

    Edit: I guess that could have been a PvP nerf leaking into PvE.
    Last edited by Adastra; 05-07-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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  3. #18
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Dont have to get rid of LE, just change what Fervor does.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    Dont have to get rid of LE, just change what Fervor does.
    How would you change this? Nerf Fervor down to LE reductions? We'll still need a bump to energy regen to compensate for that loss either way, just not as big of a boost.

    There was a post from Gyle in the other tablet thread about how mages/clerics can easily change specs and at least practice on a dummy to get a parse without a problem. Try to do that on a rogue, it's not possible to compare specs unless you have a LE/Fervor slave (or dual box one).

    Edit: I like Dun's suggestion about the finishers. Perhaps change it so 5 CP finishers cost no energy, but anything less than that costs what they normally do now. I think it would be worth to experiment different ideas on the PTS to see what change would fit in without completely changing the way a rogue plays.
    Last edited by Adastra; 05-07-2012 at 06:10 AM.
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  5. #20
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    Agree that they need to do something about energy... Lots of good ideas here though.

  6. #21
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    I like having to manage power. Yes it sucks to have to use tablets to do competitive dps. Though I go like the system... But there is a flaw.

    The flaw being that warriors can do the same or better dps without them. I strongly feel that using tablets should give us a nice dps boost in addition to being able to be very competitive when not using them. Though as it is now getting beat by a warrior even after spending 5 plat on an attempt is not cool.
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  7. #22
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    I pretty much agree with this. I don't like the idea of removing energy management either, but it's silly at this point. Yes it's good to have some buffs that benefit your group/raid and that people want. But you should not have entire souls and builds depend on them.

    Strategic resource management is well and good - mana, verse of joy, common drop/crafted pots etc. all work well. You can do your job solo, you can prepare for long fights and have tactics for managing your resource. And other raid members can help you directly, too.

    But immediate and constant energy starvation brings nothing positive to the game.

    Even with energy starvation in the game, a rift drop as a class balancing consumable is ridiculous.

  8. #23
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adastra View Post
    Maybe if they really wanted to try something different... I always thought of a somewhat more complex way of how energy should regenerate. It should be based on how much current energy you have. Ideally, the more current energy you have, the faster it regenerates, and if you bottom out your energy, then there will be a penalty. As such, you should be juggling your energy around the "middle" of the energy bar in most cases. Here's an example with some arbitrary numbers.

    80-100+ current energy = 30 energy regen/sec
    41-79 current energy = 27 energy regen/sec
    10-40 current energy = 23 energy regen/sec
    < 10 current energy = temporary exhaustion, energy regen goes to 15 energy/sec for 3 seconds.

    Or the easiest route, just take out things like tablets and fervor/LE and bump up our natural regen to compensate a bit.
    Thats exactly how it works in SWTOR with Scoundrels/Operatives and it sucks, really bad.

    By the way, the change I'm suggesting is to make Fervor/LE still work with mana, just not with energy. It shouldn't affect casters.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 05-07-2012 at 07:05 AM.

  9. #24
    Plane Walker Mav986's Avatar
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    signed.

    Remove enery reduction from ferver, buff rogue base regen to a level that competes with current fervor.

    Keeps energy regen on tablets, as a way of min/maxing. Just lets you 5cp FB in bludstoker instead of 3-4cp.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Thats exactly how it works in SWTOR with Scoundrels/Operatives and it sucks, really bad.
    Ah, alright, scratch that idea then. :P Back to the drawing board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mav986 View Post
    signed.

    Remove enery reduction from ferver, buff rogue base regen to a level that competes with current fervor.

    Keeps energy regen on tablets, as a way of min/maxing. Just lets you 5cp FB in bludstoker instead of 3-4cp.
    I'm kinda conflicted on this.
    Last edited by Adastra; 05-07-2012 at 07:29 AM.
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  11. #26
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    Rogue energy regen should be like this:

    Tablets should not be needed anywhere, just change them to something else.

    All specs should be starved without LE/Fervor, or else rogues are broken PvP wise, and no energy management is a bad thing there.

    With fervor, no spec should be starved, same as MM is.

    Aka every spec needs a 10% reduction.
    Last edited by potis; 05-07-2012 at 07:28 AM.
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  12. #27
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    I still think one of two things needs to happen, or possibly a combination of the two.

    1) Energy regen rate to 26-27 a sec. If you want to remove tablets from the game for regen, 27.

    2) Raise the maximum energy pool to 200 or 300. While this doesnt necessarily remove the energy problem, it would allow some time before starvation. I still think regen would have to be raised to 25-26 a sec. With this option.

    3) Finishers give back energy, as mentioned by Dun. 3 energy per cp might work. Would probably have to scrap BD talent at that point but it seems that would work.

    You just cannot play many specs normally due to starvation and if raiding, you cannot afford for the bard or chloro to die. The dps hit is too huge without fervor or living energy, and it shouldn't be.
    The first issue I would like feedback on is the Power Regeneration. I have tweaked it to a point but I need feedback on it from actual players (You guys) in a real world environment to fine tune it. The value is not final and will likely need to be changed. The goal is to minimize the use and need for Tablets and make players who do not use them more viable without completely removing the use of the Tablets in game

  13. #28
    Rift Disciple Harlan Nimue's Avatar
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    what will I do with my 500+ tablets then? Water resist runes anyone?

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  14. #29
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    Not sure if this was mentioned, but I believe T3 PA included a planar attunement version of the tablet buffs (and all rift consumable buffs). This may be down the road, and require a significant investment, but it could prove fairly useful and reduce the dependency in the long-run.

    Of course, many people complained about the T3 PAs because they felt it was under-whelming and offered little in the way of "advancement" for the amount of play-time required to achieve the 3rd tier of PA. Regardless, I think it was listed in the PA abilities, and would be a welcome alternative to grinding out a much needed consumable.

    There are other uses for the Tablet, of course. It's mana regen is appreciated by the Cleric healers. The str/wis buff double-taps AP for melee clerics and Block/Parry for tanking Clerics as well making this a significant buff for Clerics to use during raids. However, not anywhere near "mandatory" levels, but if we're talking about min-maxing here -- it falls within the same category.


    PS - I think those rift damage thingies should have more uses... Or just be removed because frankly I just vendor them all the time.
    Last edited by Patchkid; 05-07-2012 at 07:46 AM.

  15. #30
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Qan suggested we parse with several bards in party. With multiple bards timing their verse of joys correctly we were able to simulate the effect of a potential rogue energy regeneration buff. Here are some ACT screens:

    http://imgur.com/a/wSrne
    http://imgur.com/a/TOlEi

    These parses were done with whetstones and poisonous coating. The bard and archon ran their normal rotations and the 5-6 other bards in party made sure verse of joy was constantly up.

    Today before raid I was able to run tests in a more realistic situation and my dps numbers did not change significantly. I was at about 3800 on ranger and around 4000 on assasin/riftstalker. I'll work on getting you screens of those if you'd like. I parsed with the same bard and archon from yesterday and ran with a tablet to simulate a typical raid environment.

    My conclusion is that our dps will not change drastically from any potential energy regeneration increase. The benefits of massively improving rogue quality of life as well as balance the rogue calling with the warrior calling's power regeneration make the decision of increasing rogue energy regeneration seem like a no brainer to me. Currently rogues REQUIRE the use of tablets to be viable use our top dps specs (nb/(sin/rs)/ranger) this leads to an extra burden of "going through tablets like candy" for rogues to raid. Using them in dungeons is a waste so, at least for me, I am between 10-25% lower than other callings in single target dps on boss encounters in dungeons without a chloro in my group because the other callings do not have this problem.
    reposting this here to preemptively quell any "but rogues will be overpowered" posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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