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Thread: Rogue PA Trees

  1. #1
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    Default Rogue PA Trees

    Haven't heard anything since the initial "We'll think about it" comment a fair while ago now. What's the deal with the rogue PA trees?

    I think we can agree that weapon DPS between rogues and warriors is much more "Apples to Apples" now than it was before; Are we going to be able to double dip our weapon DPS PA nodes? Will ranged rogues also benefit?

    Are we going to get free AP from having a weapon equipped we don't even use? Seems that adding this would tandem nicely with double dipping as it would free up nodes due to the necessity of a "universal" weapon DPS node for both melee and ranged weapons.

    What are you going to do to bring the rogue PA trees in line with the other callings?

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Mellik's Avatar
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    Truthfully, I don't think they have figured it out yet.

    After all, the number of weapon slots fits nicely with the way it is. Unfortunately, this puts us at a disadvantage to the other Callings. I'm okay with combining Guns & Bows and replacing the other with +AP.

    Might fall a little short, but it would be headed in the right direction.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellik View Post
    Truthfully, I don't think they have figured it out yet.

    After all, the number of weapon slots fits nicely with the way it is. Unfortunately, this puts us at a disadvantage to the other Callings. I'm okay with combining Guns & Bows and replacing the other with +AP.

    Might fall a little short, but it would be headed in the right direction.
    Or make the mace dps hexes a ranged weapon dps hex to solve the double dip issue and slap the +ap on top of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    They could easily add in a universal melee node and a universal ranged node, gut half of them, and then add in AP.

    In our case they might need to add two universal melee nodes or some such BS @ half the value (.1 dps) to make the setup work, but at least the option would be there. Would "kind of" make sense in terms of the # of weapons that are being boosted in that fashion, but w/e, it'd be something.

    Really annoying that the ceiling for useful things in PA's is limited to two sets of 4 weapon DPS PA's, and then the 60 Str/Dex. Errbudy else at least gets the free AP, and warriors are plain over the top now with double dipping added into that mix.

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    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Or make the mace dps hexes a ranged weapon dps hex to solve the double dip issue and slap the +ap on top of it
    ^^this, why do we even have mace dps hexes
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    Sword of Telara Gynxz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShazzamCrucia View Post
    ^^this, why do we even have mace dps hexes
    For tanking. We even get the Relic tanking mace out of the Relic T2 box, yes, the one with <block> on it. Same as the light Kiss for epic gear with no no DBPS.

    But going back to PA, same as the best tanking bonus <Lighning Glyp weapon enchant> coming out of the Air T2 (which is the iconic Rogue dps plane) but not worth for dps.

    Or how good is to get the relic sword for melee and relic Gun for MM just because PA synergy is better with those two than trying to level Dagger & Gun

    Rogue PA looks like a Paella

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    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gynxz View Post
    For tanking. We even get the Relic tanking mace out of the Relic T2 box, yes, the one with <block> on it. Same as the light Kiss for epic gear with no no DBPS.

    But going back to PA, same as the best tanking bonus <Lighning Glyp weapon enchant> coming out of the Air T2 (which is the iconic Rogue dps plane) but not worth for dps.

    Or how good is to get the relic sword for melee and relic Gun for MM just because PA synergy is better with those two than trying to level Dagger & Gun

    Rogue PA looks like a Paella
    For tanking? Guess I should max my mace dps PA, scrap an HK weapon and use noxious maul, which has been rotting in my bank for months. Or hope to pick up the Aky mace after the warriors all get theirs...

    I have a hard time believing that Trion put mace DPS in a PA tree based solely on two drops, one from a boss that had been killed thousands of times by the time PA was implemented, or based on the benchmark boss of progression, where rogues would logically only have a shot at it after warr's got theirs. Outside of this, there is....what...divine defender? Maces are seriously not statted for rogues; this is the central issue us few complaining about mace PA would like to see remedied. Not to mention the fact that with maxed mace PA, matron's dagger still wins in raw DPS. So, PA based solely on snagging one mace with stats a rogue can't use in any way?

    Personally I think rogue tank itemization has been neglected since Rift launched. Personally I also believe Trion is addressing this in the next raid tier; deflect has started showing up on random loot and they've stated it will be present on our next tier of tank leather. I can only hope that +deflect maces will start appearing; then maybe your argument will be valid.

    In any case, there just aren't enough rogue-useful maces in the game at the moment for mace PA to mean anything at all.








    TLDR; current loot tables preclude rogues from desiring maces, for either tanking or DPS. Therefore, these available PAs represent either 1) Trion's decision to make maces priority for rogues in future content or 2) to reitemize block into block/deflect. Option 3 of course is that they derped when they put mace PA in our tree...
    Last edited by ShazzamCrucia; 02-24-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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    Sword of Telara Gynxz's Avatar
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    sorry forgot to put the :P after my first sentence. It makes no sense. When PA's hit Rift I was Sword/Axe and Gun (not the ideal Rogue weapons) after clearing HK I have Swords/Sword Gun. Itemization, drops and PA are not in sync.

    It takes about 4K more PA to get full Sword/Gun + Dex points than going Daggers/Bow + Dex. But the only daggers you get early HK are Tanking (REALLY TRION) and the end game synergy is also Sword/Gun so again Trion, whats the deal with the Direction you're taking rogues+Drops+PA?

    Half way through HK I had Sword/Axe for Dps and 2xDaggers for tanking. PA's are just not in sync. It feels like a totally unrelated team worked on them w/o any communication nor experience working with the rest of the Rift team.

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    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gynxz View Post
    sorry forgot to put the :P after my first sentence. It makes no sense. When PA's hit Rift I was Sword/Axe and Gun (not the ideal Rogue weapons) after clearing HK I have Swords/Sword Gun. Itemization, drops and PA are not in sync.

    It takes about 4K more PA to get full Sword/Gun + Dex points than going Daggers/Bow + Dex. But the only daggers you get early HK are Tanking (REALLY TRION) and the end game synergy is also Sword/Gun so again Trion, whats the deal with the Direction you're taking rogues+Drops+PA?

    Half way through HK I had Sword/Axe for Dps and 2xDaggers for tanking. PA's are just not in sync. It feels like a totally unrelated team worked on them w/o any communication nor experience working with the rest of the Rift team.
    I agree, it's almost like they were struggling with concepts to fill PA trees and rushed it out without doing sufficient QC. Whoops, no useful rogue maces, oh well ;)

    FWIW itemization is screwed for every class, not just us. We fight warrs for 1hs, mages fight clerics for lots of stuff. Both mages and rogues are well over the crit cap upon ENTERING HK, yet crit shows up as a raw stat on tons of items. So in the next tier, dex/int/crit are going to be so inferior to AP that the other stats will become undesirable.
    Last edited by ShazzamCrucia; 02-25-2012 at 01:08 AM.
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  10. #10
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    PA so balanced, my warrior, with 80PA levels, has as much wDPS as my rogue, which took 200 levels.

    We need a universal DPS hex to replace maces, working for both melee and ranged DPS.

    (Gear)

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    Here's three easy steps to fix rogue PA:
    1. Replace bow dps with ranged mastery which gives 1 AP per point when a ranged weapon is equipped
    2. Replace mace dps with ranged weapon dps which gives 0.4 weapon dps per point for ranged weapons
    3. Replace gun dps with dual wield dps which gives 0.2 weapon dps per point for melee weapons

    With those changes our PA would be on par with other callings.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Here's three easy steps to fix rogue PA:
    1. Replace bow dps with ranged mastery which gives 1 AP per point when a ranged weapon is equipped
    2. Replace mace dps with ranged weapon dps which gives 0.4 weapon dps per point for ranged weapons
    3. Replace gun dps with dual wield dps which gives 0.2 weapon dps per point for melee weapons

    With those changes our PA would be on par with other callings.
    Unless the dual weild PA worked for ranged DPS, it would still leave marksman behind.

    (Gear)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    Unless the dual weild PA worked for ranged DPS, it would still leave marksman behind.
    No it wouldn't since the ranged weapon dps would be 0.4 per point while the melee weapons are 0.2 per point. It's analogous with mages who get double the amount of SP for 2 handed weapons compared to one handed so there is no reason why the weapon dps hexes should be all fixed to 0.2.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    No it wouldn't since the ranged weapon dps would be 0.4 per point while the melee weapons are 0.2 per point. It's analogous with mages who get double the amount of SP for 2 handed weapons compared to one handed so there is no reason why the weapon dps hexes should be all fixed to 0.2.
    my bad, didn't read (((

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  15. #15
    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    No it wouldn't since the ranged weapon dps would be 0.4 per point while the melee weapons are 0.2 per point. It's analogous with mages who get double the amount of SP for 2 handed weapons compared to one handed so there is no reason why the weapon dps hexes should be all fixed to 0.2.
    1) You should be comparing to warriors, and they get .2 DPs per 2-handed node. It's an unfair acceleration towards Marksman/Ranger.

    2) Dual Wield DPS is not needed as soon as they fix PAs. Both for Rogues, and Warriors. If, as I understood it, if you have +6.4 Sword DPS, and a sword in both hands, then the benefit should double to +12.8 for dual wielding. I understand "dual wield DPS" if you want to use 2 different weapon types, but then when it gets fixed we could triple dip.
    Last edited by Koe; 02-25-2012 at 04:27 AM.
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