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Thread: Deadly Dance:No longer applied to Saboteur Charges

  1. #31
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Sabdancer has needed to die for a long time. You can't have a viable stand alone Sabo soul AND be able to get DD buffed charges. Not possible. Sabdancer was a bandaid. Rogues found a glitch, but it was the only thing keeping them competitive, so they just coded the glitch in for real so rogues could actually DPS.

    Saabdancer should have been killed in 1.5
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  2. #32
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    I don't mind the sabo changes, but I don't like the idea of having the damage being heavily DoT based. Perhaps give us an alternate detonate that turns the charges into instant damage that deals something like 20-40% less damage compared to the DoT version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HmmmNO View Post
    Go spec in Sab 44 or above and test it as aoe and provide your feedback in terms of scaling and unbuffed numbers.
    Please do for the love of god. The only numbers I've seen are mine with my terribad DPS gear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Sabdancer has needed to die for a long time. You can't have a viable stand alone Sabo soul AND be able to get DD buffed charges. Not possible. Sabdancer was a bandaid. Rogues found a glitch, but it was the only thing keeping them competitive, so they just coded the glitch in for real so rogues could actually DPS.

    Saabdancer should have been killed in 1.5
    Everything but the spec you play is bad and should have been nerfed/died along time ago. Reoccurring theme here. New flavor of the month is 51 Bladedancer till you get sick of that in April.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

  5. #35
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    Sab + Deadly Dance is a joke and horrid playstyle. Sweet, I have a class that has 30m capability but I have to do this awkward slide in to melee range to use an obscure finisher, then blow up my 5 super bombs with 1 CP detonation. It's just whack as hell of a playstyle, especially when it was the most efficient. Make it efficient without that garbage.

    I also don't blame them for making Deadly Dance not work on range weapons. MM Strafe was pretty 'lol' with Deadly Dance up in pvp aspects.
    Last edited by Violacea; 02-21-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Sab + Deadly Dance is a joke and horrid playstyle. Sweet, I have a class that has 30m capability but I have to do this awkward slide in to melee range to use an obscure finisher, then blow up my 5 super bombs with 1 CP detonation. It's just whack as hell of a playstyle, especially when it was the most efficient. Make it efficient without that garbage.

    I also don't blame them for making Deadly Dance not work on range weapons. MM Strafe was pretty 'lol' with Deadly Dance up in pvp aspects.
    You want top dps, be in melee (or roll a Mage lolz). That's just the way it is. You had the option of staying safe and sound at range with Sab and doing alot less dps than if u melee'd.

    You can't be number one and act like you want it handed to you from 35m away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Sab + Deadly Dance is a joke and horrid playstyle. Sweet, I have a class that has 30m capability but I have to do this awkward slide in to melee range to use an obscure finisher, then blow up my 5 super bombs with 1 CP detonation. It's just whack as hell of a playstyle, especially when it was the most efficient. Make it efficient without that garbage.

    I also don't blame them for making Deadly Dance not work on range weapons. MM Strafe was pretty 'lol' with Deadly Dance up in pvp aspects.
    You still have to be in melee with Sab for top ST dps because of Serrated Blades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petgroup View Post
    You want top dps, be in melee (or roll a Mage lolz). That's just the way it is. You had the option of staying safe and sound at range with Sab and doing alot less dps than if u melee'd.

    You can't be number one and act like you want it handed to you from 35m away.
    51 Ranger should be competitive (ie, within 5% of melee) DPS IMO. Dealing with a pet & energy issues is enough of a reason.
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  8. #38
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    The problem wasn't sabodancer the problem was rogue souls dps. Only thing they had to do was bring the other souls up to par with War's. No one cared about the build people were pissed that it was the only viable build. The only difference now is we have 3 viable builds now Bloodstalker, 51MM and 51BD. Idk why they like to limit our top dps build options...its shameful all those souls but only 3 viable options. Also how about giving us 2 more souls we could use another ranged and melee option. Maybe a Pole Arm Rogue and a range that uses all the elements Death/fire/life ect...
    Last edited by DB1; 02-21-2012 at 10:25 AM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DB1 View Post
    The problem wasn't sabodancer the problem was rogue souls dps. Only thing they had to do was bring the other souls up to par with War's. No one cared about the build people were pissed that it was the only viable build. The only difference now is we have 3 viable builds now Bloodstalker, 51MM and 51BD. Idk why they like to limit our top dps build options...its shameful all those souls but only 3 viable options. Also how about giving us 2 more souls we could use another ranged and melee option. Maybe a Pole Arm Rogue and a range that uses all the elements Death/fire/life ect...
    Sabdancer was never the only viable build.

    Current list of viable builds: sin/rs, 51bd, bd/rs, 49nb, 51mm, 51 ranger, 46 sab, sin/bd variations, and mm/ranger. There are probably more I am probably leaving out unintentionally.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 02-21-2012 at 02:53 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  10. #40
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    Once again: kind Sirs, could you tell a noob if it will affect Cadence?

    P.S. I know, my question is slightly off this thread, but I don't want to start another one just for that.
    Last edited by Dyak; 02-21-2012 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Sabdancer was never the only viable build.

    Current list of viable builds: sin/rs, 51bd, bd/rs, 49nb, 51mm, 51 ranger, 46 sab, sin/bd variations, and mm/ranger. There are probably more I am probably leaving out unintentionally.
    You are really stretching the limits of what counts as viable. The only real raiding builds are bloodstalker, 49 NB, 51 MM and 51 BD. After that it's just a matter of how big dps drop you are willing to take on an encounter by using a non-optimal build. You could dps with 51 sin if you wanted to and the dps would be more than enough for HK encounters, you would most likely outdps all the warriors on sicaron with it too. But it won't outdps bloodstalker which is basically the same thing with blinks and better dps.

    It's basically one playstyle per main soul and each style has one best build. Ranger and saboteur just aren't best or even that good for anything. It's debatable whether NB is best rogue build for any encounter either but I like it and it works very nicely for me on some encounters, especially grugonim.

  12. #42
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petgroup View Post
    Everything but the spec you play is bad and should have been nerfed/died along time ago. Reoccurring theme here. New flavor of the month is 51 Bladedancer till you get sick of that in April.
    lol, seriously? Explain to me how you would go about making Sabo be acceptable DPS on its own, and still let Deadly Dance be able to buff 10 charges? It has nothing to do with what i do or don't like. I actually enjoyed Sabdancer when it was the top spec. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    Sabdancer has needed to die for a long time, not because i don't like it, but because i am right.
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  13. #43
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    lol, seriously? Explain to me how you would go about making Sabo be acceptable DPS on its own, and still let Deadly Dance be able to buff 10 charges? It has nothing to do with what i do or don't like. I actually enjoyed Sabdancer when it was the top spec. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    Sabdancer has needed to die for a long time, not because i don't like it, but because i am right.
    Either bring back old charge booster or leave deadly dance affecting charges.

    It all goes back to patch 1.1.

    You can't cut a soul's damage in half and expect it to do acceptable dps. Deadly dance affecting charges was a bandaid. Whether intentional or not, it corrected this huge developer mistake from patch 1.1 by allowing sab to do the amount of damage it was originally intended to do. Remember. the change to charge booster was 100% due to whining from pvp. It was a bad decision and drastically changed the play-style of the soul and the calling. Unfortunately patch 1.5 with un-balanced synergy crystals put other specs ahead of saboteur and these changes in 1.8 only further to reduce the damage output of the saboteur soul which is a sad thing because it is by far the most enjoyable soul in the rogue calling.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    You are really stretching the limits of what counts as viable. The only real raiding builds are bloodstalker, 49 NB, 51 MM and 51 BD. After that it's just a matter of how big dps drop you are willing to take on an encounter by using a non-optimal build. You could dps with 51 sin if you wanted to and the dps would be more than enough for HK encounters, you would most likely outdps all the warriors on sicaron with it too. But it won't outdps bloodstalker which is basically the same thing with blinks and better dps.

    It's basically one playstyle per main soul and each style has one best build. Ranger and saboteur just aren't best or even that good for anything. It's debatable whether NB is best rogue build for any encounter either but I like it and it works very nicely for me on some encounters, especially grugonim.
    Viable does not mean best dps.

    Just because ranger, saboteur, or in your example 51 assasin are not producing the best results does not mean that they are not viable. You said it yourself saying the dps would be more than enough for HK encounters.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 02-21-2012 at 08:15 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  14. #44
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    DD Sab needed to be nerfed to make Sab viable on it's own.

    The Typhoid shot hurts, but you're not going to die of Typhoid, so it's probably better in the long run.
    ~Quiescent

  15. #45
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    The Typhoid shot hurts, but you're not going to die of Typhoid, so it's probably better in the long run.
    LOL, that's an odd analogy.
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