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Thread: Warriors will now scale better than Rogues with AP.

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    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Default Warriors will now scale better than Rogues with AP.

    Oh lawd this is funny, right off the bat they get 200% bonus from AP to abilities, while also having more damage modifiers.


    Lets see if this makes it off the PTS.

    /popcorn.

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    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
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    u kidin me?

    Please God at least tell me they're raising our crit cap so that we don't have so much gear with de facto junk stats on them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowprison View Post
    Oh lawd this is funny, right off the bat they get 200% bonus from AP to abilities, while also having more damage modifiers.


    Lets see if this makes it off the PTS.

    /popcorn.
    I believe most were finishers, but I'm pretty sure I saw some follow up attacks in there as well.

    Love how the warrior dev starts high, then tweaks it seems. Rogues on the other hand (short of 1.5), always seem to start low and constantly want/need an increase to even come close to competitive numbers.

    Different methods I guess, as long as they reach a similar end point I'm ok with it.

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    Plane Walker TheKomissar's Avatar
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    Don't worry.

    Historically speaking it will be a terribly underwhelming patch and the changes will probably lower our dps by 500. Just like the last time they tried helping us and we all sat out of our raids for a few days awaiting the hotfix, which still left us 150 behind where we were beforehand.

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    Tot5R, WS has been reduced from 2% damage per point to 0.6% damage per point....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackblade View Post
    Tot5R, WS has been reduced from 2% damage per point to 0.6% damage per point....
    I think that's for each point into the talent itself. As in 0.6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3.0% per point spent in the tree is what is planned. I think. I might be wrong.
    Last edited by TheKomissar; 02-17-2012 at 10:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKomissar View Post
    I think that's for each point into the talent itself. As in 0.6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3.0% per point spent in the tree is what is planned. I think. I might be wrong.
    That is correct. But currently this now adds 2% per point (i.e 2% / 4% / 6% etc....)

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    Plane Walker TheKomissar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackblade View Post
    That is correct. But currently this now adds 2% per point (i.e 2% / 4% / 6% etc....)
    Wait, what? I can't tell if we're agreeing or if one of us is confused. I mean with the changes once you've maxed out the talents for ToFR/WS/Rift Fury it'll give you a total of 3% increase for every point spent in the tree, up from 2%. Each point into ToFR/WS/Rift Fury will give 0.6%, up from 0.4% as it is now.

    It has most certainly not been reduced. It's been buffed.
    Last edited by TheKomissar; 02-17-2012 at 10:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKomissar View Post
    Wait, what? I can't tell if we're agreeing or if one of us is confused. I mean with the changes once you've maxed out the talents for ToFR/WS/Rift Fury it'll give you a total of 3% increase for every point spent in the tree, up from 2%. Each point into ToFR/WS/Rift Fury will give 0.6%, up from 0.4% as it is now.

    It has most certainly not been reduced. It's been buffed.
    I am fairly certain that it does not add 3% per point as the idea was to boost AP scaling so that Warriors do not need to depend on Tot5R / WS for damage. Of course this is not on PTS yet so it's hypothetical.

    In any event, this is the Rogue forums. We should ask this in the warrior thread.
    Last edited by Blackblade; 02-17-2012 at 11:44 PM.

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    Plane Walker TheKomissar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackblade View Post
    I am fairly certain that it does not add 3% per point as the idea was to boost AP scaling so that Warriors do not need to depend on Tot5R / WS for damage. Of course this is not on PTS yet so it's hypothetical.

    In any event, this is the Rogue forums. We should ask this in the warrior thread.
    While you're right it's inappropriate for us to be discussing this here, I feel for the sake of accuracy...


    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Weapon Specialization now grants 0.6% per Talent Point for each Soul Point spent in Champion.
    Teaching of the Five Rings now grants 0.6% per Talent Point for each Soul Point spent in Paragon.
    Rift Fury now affects all attacks just like Teaching of the Five Rings and Weapon Specialization.
    Rift Fury now grants 0.6% per Talent Point for each Soul Point spent in Riftblade.
    How it's worded would imply that maxed (5/5) in them would grant a total of 3% for each point spent in the tree, unless Atrius decided to word the change very redundantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowprison View Post
    Oh lawd this is funny, right off the bat they get 200% bonus from AP to abilities, while also having more damage modifiers.
    Stop exaggerating!
    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ng-up-pts.html

    Important:
    Please be aware that these numbers are only ballpark and nothing is final, there are changes still on the way


    And yes.. Warriors should scale better with AP then rogues. rogues are scaling better with crit.. so what? ;)

    And hey.. if warriors scale better with AP, then you would not have to fear, that a warrior wants to have a rogue item like a 1h sword with crit..
    Dont take the patchnotes as carved in stone...

    Until the ap-scaling is going live, there are going to be much more changes...
    Last edited by Delarcia; 02-18-2012 at 12:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delarcia View Post
    Stop exaggerating!
    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ng-up-pts.html

    Important:
    Please be aware that these numbers are only ballpark and nothing is final, there are changes still on the way


    And yes.. Warriors should scale better with AP then rogues. rogues are scaling better with crit.. so what? ;)

    And hey.. if warriors scale better with AP, then you would not have to fear, that a warrior wants to have a rogue item like a 1h sword with crit..
    Dont take the patchnotes as carved in stone...

    Until the ap-scaling is going live, there are going to be much more changes...
    Rogues dont scale with crit at all since we have all been capped for ages. Any item with +crit on it is thought of as useless. The conversion rate for AP vs crit is maybe 1 AP / 15 crit. That means if a rogue can get +1 AP by giving up 15 crit then it's worth it. Usually we just ignore crit altogether and just count the amount of AP the item gives.

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    I have no intentions to troll (i was actually trying to find a specific thread for the sake of my tankie rogue alt when i saw this one) but seriously, can u get over warriors?
    If you are going to create more "mom, that boy has a new.. i want it too.." topics then at least make a full write up of pros&cons instead of creating impressions that bring whining on forums.

    fyi, warrior AP scaling is indeed being boosted, HOWEVER, weapon dps scaling is NERFED to keep the overall dps just about where it currently is (prolly bellow rogues and mages) ..just saying


    The reason those changes are made for warriors is because DPS so far only depends on our weapon. You can browse many videos of warriors parsing on dummy with relic HK gear and then parsing naked only with their weapon. Full relic gear is hardly increasing dps by 10%.. 90% of warrior dps has to do exclusively with weapon dps.
    Therefore, the correct title of this thread would have been:
    Warriors are trading off weapon dps scaling for better AP scaling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YobiRaion View Post
    I have no intentions to troll (i was actually trying to find a specific thread for the sake of my tankie rogue alt when i saw this one) but seriously, can u get over warriors?
    If you are going to create more "mom, that boy has a new.. i want it too.." topics then at least make a full write up of pros&cons instead of creating impressions that bring whining on forums.

    fyi, warrior AP scaling is indeed being boosted, HOWEVER, weapon dps scaling is NERFED to keep the overall dps just about where it currently is (prolly bellow rogues and mages) ..just saying


    The reason those changes are made for warriors is because DPS so far only depends on our weapon. You can browse many videos of warriors parsing on dummy with relic HK gear and then parsing naked only with their weapon. Full relic gear is hardly increasing dps by 10%.. 90% of warrior dps has to do exclusively with weapon dps.
    Therefore, the correct title of this thread would have been:
    Warriors are trading off weapon dps scaling for better AP scaling.
    The issue is that warriors not only scale better with AP, they can also stack it much easier due to a .75 from str rather than maxing at .5 from either for rogues. At hk levels, rogues go far over crit cap getting tons of useless crit too easily while trying to AVOID crit based items where as warriors just make it (if they even do) if stacking AP, meaning next tier when warrior AP will even further be widening the gap and they as well are complaining about being at crit soft cap too easily they will have more AP, which they scale better with, as well as the same crit levels as rogues.

    To factor in WS and TotFR being INCREASED to where (if 64 pts are between champ/para and 2 in rb, with 5/5 totfr and ws) they have a total of 193.2% damage increase with melee abilities(3%x64 + .6%x2) while having much greater ap scaling AND ap.

    I agree warriors need to scale with AP(even rogues need more AP scaling), but this is just too far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delarcia View Post
    And yes.. Warriors should scale better with AP then rogues. rogues are scaling better with crit.. so what? ;)
    Eh? Um? Ahh? Do you have a clue what you are talking about. Really?

    Um, no, you are completely and utterly wrong. How completely? 100% completely. Warriors get a higher damage improvement from crit in the majority of their builds than rogues. There is one rogue soul that has a general crit damage increase (assassin) and 1 rogue soul that has a part time damage increase (at 51 points, BD). For the most part though, Warriors get a 1.8 scale factor on crits and rogues get a 1.5x scale factor with a max of 1.7 in sin based specs.

    So no, warriors scale better with crit than rogues, in fact, so do clerics.

    And hey.. if warriors scale better with AP, then you would not have to fear, that a warrior wants to have a rogue item like a 1h sword with crit..
    Dont take the patchnotes as carved in stone...
    I think I can speak for myself and every rogue in the game, if a warrior wants a 1 hander with crit, they can have it. All day, every day, until the end of time!

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