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Thread: Are Rogues being turned into utility slaves?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched SiliconShadow's Avatar
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    Default Are Rogues being turned into utility slaves?

    I saw it a lot in a few guilds other than my own as well as my own.

    Their utility is the best on the high end of the Marksman tree, but is the DPS hit to the raid worth it for every encounter that has a purge or an interrupt?

    A current argument I have is that rogues have to drop 800~1200 dps to go from mellee to ranged on sicaron in order to purge, that's fine for the rogues who play MM anyway, but what about the ones who play something else or want to try something else?

    I stated there are builds for mages that they can purge, there is a cleric in DPS that isn't purging and the raid leader puts up 5 purgers one being a backup purger.

    To me there are enough specs for the two warriors tanks to have 11 in vk for the purge and a dps cleric if you need for a backup purger.

    What classes, what builds would be the optimal? I suggested 2 tanks 11vk and the 2 cleric dpsers as backup purgers as they can have purge easily in their dps builds.
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Europe's Avatar
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    5 purgers? wat
    <a href=http://www.trinityguild.org target=_blank>http://www.trinityguild.org/images/signatures/rift/sig_final.png</a>
    I mean, I guess it would just be a guy who you know, grabs bananas and runs. Or, um, a banana that grabs things. I donít know.
    Why would a banana grab another banana? I mean, those are the kind of questions I donít want to answer.

  3. #3
    Champion
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    No, rogues are not being turned into utility slaves because your raid leader is asking you do purges on Sicaron. If you really, really, really want out of the purge rotation, you can always just start missing purges.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconShadow View Post
    I saw it a lot in a few guilds other than my own as well as my own.

    Their utility is the best on the high end of the Marksman tree, but is the DPS hit to the raid worth it for every encounter that has a purge or an interrupt?

    A current argument I have is that rogues have to drop 800~1200 dps to go from mellee to ranged on sicaron in order to purge, that's fine for the rogues who play MM anyway, but what about the ones who play something else or want to try something else?

    I stated there are builds for mages that they can purge, there is a cleric in DPS that isn't purging and the raid leader puts up 5 purgers one being a backup purger.

    To me there are enough specs for the two warriors tanks to have 11 in vk for the purge and a dps cleric if you need for a backup purger.

    What classes, what builds would be the optimal? I suggested 2 tanks 11vk and the 2 cleric dpsers as backup purgers as they can have purge easily in their dps builds.
    Rogues can spam purge, as long as you're the only class than can shoot out a purge without a single cooldown or cast bar (archon purge) or anything to worry about, then expect people to want yours more.

    But, on Sicaron You're archon can purge, you could just have the 2 tanks purge (You only need 2 iirc)
    dps doesn't matter, all that matters is the boss dies. If you start hitting the enrage, then complain about it, until then you want to assign the most competent people in your group to those jobs.

    Hell, if your heals are fine then make a chloro spec some dom and handle the purge. (Though you have to watch and make sure you cancel the channel in time so that you don't accidentally purge twice...)

    Overall it's just easiest to have MM purge, You take a huge dps loss sure, but it's less of a dps loss than a mage dps going necro or dom...

    BUT you could also just have your 2 tanks purge, hell they aren't doing much of anything at all anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by rennlc View Post
    No, rogues are not being turned into utility slaves because your raid leader is asking you do purges on Sicaron. If you really, really, really want out of the purge rotation, you can always just start missing purges.
    That would not only get him off the purge rotation, but right out of most raids!
    Doesn't matter what is put here, someone is going to @#%^& about it, regardless of what it is.

  5. #5
    Telaran Eraghon's Avatar
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    Maybe it's just because I play a tank, but I'm of the opinion the tanks should concern themselves first with survival, second, with aggro, third, with mechanics... If you are speccing 11 into VK you're giving up survival, for mechanics. Don't ask your tanks to do anything but survive, and keep the baddies off of you. Especially when Rogues have a build that can purge endlessly, unhindered.

    Support purge/cleanse/interrupt > DPS purge/cleanse/interrupt > Tank purge/cleanse/interrupt Healer purge/cleanse/interrupt

    Unless of course you are hitting enrage timers, then move DPS to last priority. Either way, Your support classes should be doing the support. Just my $.02

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    LOL, ya... not in our guild.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
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    Plane Touched SiliconShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    LOL, ya... not in our guild.
    How do you do it in your guild? in ours basically if you aren't MM then you get laughed at, my raid leader literately said the dps difference between rogue ranged and mellee isn't that much, I know fully well it is, I gain 600~800 fight depending in HK myself over .

    Also wasn't defilemancer one of the best sicaron specs in 1.6? What changed? I saw a couple in the top 10 on riftlogs then.
    I make lots of money I make more money than you, I drive around in my limo that's what I was born to do,
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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconShadow View Post
    How do you do it in your guild? in ours basically if you aren't MM then you get laughed at, my raid leader literately said the dps difference between rogue ranged and mellee isn't that much, I know fully well it is, I gain 600~800 fight depending in HK myself over .

    Also wasn't defilemancer one of the best sicaron specs in 1.6? What changed? I saw a couple in the top 10 on riftlogs then.
    Well our guild brings 6 rogues to raid night. 1 bard and 5 DPS rogues, and we are normally 1-5 on the dps chart, and you don't re-purpose your top DPSers into utility unless you absolutely have to. That's not to say our rogues never purge, or run MM for utility, but the ones that do, like to.

    There is no reason a rogue playing Bloodstalker correctly on Murdantix or Sicaron should be losing to anybody. The top end is very close right now between the three DPS classes, and clerics are in the best place they have ever been, so at this point its about gear and skill. If you are better or at least as good as the mages and warriors in your guild, you should be putting up the same or better numbers.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  9. #9
    tau
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    Trade you my dom purge for your mm purge. Then I'll be your utility slave, your purge b***, anything you want. Just gimme that purge.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    Every class has their jobs to do.

    Rogues have a ranged zero cooldown instacast purge and interrupt. Be prepared to use them.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    We use 2 clerics.
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

  12. #12
    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    You don't need 2 tanks these days for Sicaron.

    And since you're using Sicaron as the benchmark in this post, rogues are ahead in the parse over warriors on this fight due to how the Contract buff scales for warriors.

    Bloodstalker was made for this fight, it destroys a marksman who is not purging so when they are in the purge rotation the dps loss is even more pronounced.

    Our tank is in the purge rotation and you only need 1 other (2 maybe for safety).

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebb View Post
    Every class has their jobs to do.

    Rogues have a ranged zero cooldown instacast purge and interrupt. Be prepared to use them.
    20 sec cool-down would relieve you of this burden.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Nadili's Avatar
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    I guess it depends where you guild is I started using MM for sicararon when it was higher dps and usually I have clerics do it however when needed I don't mind doing the purge. Sicaron has been on farm for so long I don't care about my parse so much as clearing 10/11 in a night so we have time to work on Akylios.

    When you called me delusional I laughed so hard I almost fell off my unicorn!!

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Novelty's Avatar
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    I'll throw one of my Rogues on purge duty, because I like to hear him complain (>)

    Realistically, on Sicaron, you don't need 5 purgers. Three with a solid rotation, and possibly a backup incase someone dies or whatnot, is manageable for most guilds these days. You may want to try and reduce how many you run with.

    Something else you may want to do, is alternate who these purgers are every week to get more people accustomed to handling the mechanic. Falling into a rut of NEEDING one person to do a job instead of having the versatility of asking almost anyone in the guild to perform it can be disadvantageous.

    Then again, it now sounds like I'm trying to tell your guild how to run, and that's not what I wanted to do. Just try to keep in mind that, in a raid setting, as great as it is to epeen your DPS on a fight, the guild as a whole comes first. Playing a utility spec that simplifies the fight while still being able to do solid DPS is better then needing to gimp two other people to do the same job.

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