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Thread: Rogue vs Warriors (Not Trolling)

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Rogue vs Warriors (Not Trolling)

    I was just curious how Rogue DPS compared to warriors. I ask because I've gone through every popular rogue spec available and they all come out to be about the same on the meters but warriors seem to always beat me, despite gear being almost exactly the same. I've used everything from Sab Dancer, to Nightblade, to AssStalker and so on and no matter what I do, I can not beat an equally geared warrior, even on AOE Fights.

    Is that just the way it is? Has Trion stated that warriors should dps better than rogues?

    I am certainly open to the idea that I need to work on my rotation though at this point I see very little I could do to optimize my rotations. Maybe I'm missing something.

    Please don't think I'm trying to bash warriors, I love my warriors in raid. I guess what I am after is an answer to my curiosity.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Rogues will beat Warriors under the following conditions:

    - They can Melee DPS without being required to have an interrupt in the spec.
    - They can Melee from behind the boss.
    - They can blink safely without fear of death.

    Warriors will beat Rogues under the following conditions:

    - AoE
    - Every other fight that does not meet those 3 points listed above.

    If your not beating your Warriors on say: Plutonus, Murdantix, Sicaron and Garau. You probably need some serious work on your rotation.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    Right now, after patch 1.7, rogues are better at singletarget dps.

    If it comes to AOE fights, then warriors are much better then rogues.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Working as intended, warriors are supposed to have better dps potential than rogues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Mellik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delarcia View Post
    Right now, after patch 1.7, rogues are better at singletarget dps.

    If it comes to AOE fights, then warriors are much better then rogues.
    This is true for one spec (Bloodstalker) if executed perfectly with all HK gear and the 4PC Assassin Crystal and a Tablet (they don't need these now). If you don't have those things and can't execute that rotation properly, maintaining your buffs then you will fall behind even slightly above average Warriors.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellik View Post
    This is true for one spec (Bloodstalker) if executed perfectly with all HK gear and the 4PC Assassin Crystal and a Tablet (they don't need these now). If you don't have those things and can't execute that rotation properly, maintaining your buffs then you will fall behind even slightly above average Warriors.
    It's a shame warriors don't have to dps perfectly in order to secure the top spot of damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taraern View Post
    Rogues will beat Warriors under the following conditions:

    - They can Melee DPS without being required to have an interrupt in the spec.
    - They can Melee from behind the boss.
    - They can blink safely without fear of death.

    Warriors will beat Rogues under the following conditions:

    - AoE
    - Every other fight that does not meet those 3 points listed above.

    If your not beating your Warriors on say: Plutonus, Murdantix, Sicaron and Garau. You probably need some serious work on your rotation.
    I am always open to the idea that I can improve, but my rogue is full HK and my top DPS Build was the *** Stalker. Even with 100% Up time on Impale and Ruthless Stalker, I come close but never beat him. It's always him as number 1 and me number 2. Again I could care less who has higher numbers I just have a fear that Rogues are falling behind warriors.

    But then again I am a guy that thinks clerics should tank as well as Rogues and Warriors and everyone's dps should be the same :P

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellik View Post
    This is true for one spec (Bloodstalker) if executed perfectly with all HK gear and the 4PC Assassin Crystal and a Tablet (they don't need these now). If you don't have those things and can't execute that rotation properly, maintaining your buffs then you will fall behind even slightly above average Warriors.
    Yes and do you know?! There is only one spec for warrior too, that is able to create such high dps and if you **** up the rotation your dps is ****ed up too....

    So 1 vs 1?! ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    It's a shame warriors don't have to dps perfectly in order to secure the top spot of damage.
    i love your irony
    Last edited by Delarcia; 02-10-2012 at 08:42 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aisell View Post
    I am always open to the idea that I can improve, but my rogue is full HK and my top DPS Build was the *** Stalker. Even with 100% Up time on Impale and Ruthless Stalker, I come close but never beat him. It's always him as number 1 and me number 2. Again I could care less who has higher numbers I just have a fear that Rogues are falling behind warriors.

    But then again I am a guy that thinks clerics should tank as well as Rogues and Warriors and everyone's dps should be the same :P
    As others said, something must be messed up then. You should be ahead of the warrior on those fights.
    Hitme (W) - Byriel - Dark Horizon
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  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    It really depends on the fight. I parse over 3000 on Murdantix, Matron, and Sicaron and I don't have HK 4 piece and I don't run bloodstalker with MM, I use BD for the extra gap closer and interrupt. Warriors will normally beat me in AOE and I will usually beat them on single target fights that play well with blinking. When it comes to AOE, I know they will have the upper hand. I honestly think that we are pretty close at the moment at being balanced and it will be gear and player skill that separates us. I'd personally rather be top DPS on a boss fight vs being top DPS on trash. Let's leave the trash to the warriors!

    Oz

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozik View Post
    It really depends on the fight. I parse over 3000 on Murdantix, Matron, and Sicaron and I don't have HK 4 piece and I don't run bloodstalker with MM, I use BD for the extra gap closer and interrupt. Warriors will normally beat me in AOE and I will usually beat them on single target fights that play well with blinking. When it comes to AOE, I know they will have the upper hand. I honestly think that we are pretty close at the moment at being balanced and it will be gear and player skill that separates us. I'd personally rather be top DPS on a boss fight vs being top DPS on trash. Let's leave the trash to the warriors!

    Oz
    I might have misquoted my Murdantix numbers but still was near the top of the DPS meter and above all the warriors. I'll have to verify my numbers next week. Sorry!

    Oz

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Mellik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delarcia View Post
    Yes and do you know?! There is only one spec for warrior too, that is able to create such high dps and if you **** up the rotation your dps is ****ed up too....

    So 1 vs 1?! ;)
    That same Warrior Spec is also nearly tops for AoE damage. Are you using a Tablet while you do that rotation? No? We do for ours. And its Single Target only.

    My point was that we are only able to beat Warrior DPS AT ALL if we do all those things.

    In truth, I don't care about what the DPS numbers are as long as Rogues are within +/- 5%. I do think they need to separate the best ST DPS and AoE DPS specs for Warriors. No build should be the best at both for any Class. See what Trion did to Sabdancer.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aisell View Post
    I am always open to the idea that I can improve, but my rogue is full HK and my top DPS Build was the *** Stalker. Even with 100% Up time on Impale and Ruthless Stalker, I come close but never beat him. It's always him as number 1 and me number 2. Again I could care less who has higher numbers I just have a fear that Rogues are falling behind warriors.

    But then again I am a guy that thinks clerics should tank as well as Rogues and Warriors and everyone's dps should be the same :P
    I'd go over your spec and rotation again, just to make sure you have everything in order.

    Also PA farmed? he's not sitting at like 60k PA farmed while you have 10k or something?

    Unless this was all before 1.7 or something, then I could understand where you were coming from.

    As it is, in 1.7 we've got the highest single target spec, but it has some huge limitations of course.

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