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Thread: Rogues / warriors DPS / tanks / support

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    Default Rogues / warriors DPS / tanks / support

    hi yall i read this:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...p-dps-why.html

    which was closed cause people stopped really discussing what the initial poster was aiming for and since i found it an interesting discussion i figured id restrart it here in a new thread however plz refrain from derailing and keep it on topic without insulting people!

    Ill start by giving my thoughts on it, oh and btw im a rogue!
    I think that it doesnt matter which calling you are if you are specced for dps the disparity with equal gear shouldnt be more then 300 dps with perfect rotations etc this is if there is no utility around at all!

    However warriors have the ability to put out crazy AE numbers which is great and i love my warrior tanks for putting over 10 k dps on AE pulls however rogues lack tremendously on the ability to do the same which is fine if this gets made up in some other area namely single target dps!

    Another thing that was pointed out in the thread mentioned was that rogues can do dps from ranged which clearly is not our best dps build but it brings utility to the table and still is only single target! Fan out can only get ya sofar! I agree completely with the fact that rogues should do less Single target dps if they have utility cant have it both ways however comparing the above analogy warriors vs rogues would it be fair to say that we get the utility vs warrior AE dps? so in this case our ST dps should remain in tact? and our AE dps should remain pitifull!

    that is the second argument i would like to see debated, the third one is the following:
    Warriors tank better then any class in the game right now which is fine makes killing raid bosses easier cause its less strenguous on the healers. However lets compare rogues and warrior tanking!

    in the link it is stated that rogues are the most mobile tank which allows us to do some crazy stuff and make certain mechanics a lot easier ( example kiting hylas around to prevent his AE ) however in the way HK is setup especially when it first came out if ya were a rogue tank it was possible to tank it but not recommended! warriors were the goto tank.

    Now the comparison is that dps is basically similar between the 2 callings (not i said calling not build) while tanking however the surviveability aside from the ports cause those ports are just a part of the mitigation and threat creation. So the thing is where do rogue tanks wanna go from here do they wanna be as good at tanking as warriors? or do they prefer to do more DPS while tanking mobs! I am ok with either however i hope that everyone can clearly see that there is an imbalance here. And it would be nice to be viable as tanks!

    If ya choose for more dps while tanking ya gotta realize that ya will always be the second tank picked for fresh content and the tank with more survivibility will be tanking all the content FIRST! if ya can live with that then i dont see an issue with upping the rogue tanking dps by about 500% which would put them around 1200 ish (not talking AE cause that would be even higher). 1200 is about the dps a fully HK geared chloro does (im being mild not everyone is a pro).

    However if ya pick surviveability which i can relate tho (im a rogue tank btw) then what ways would ya pose to create equality without nerfing the warriors?

    Also and this is the last point ill make we are having issues with AE dps as rogues, supposedly the saboteur soul is gonna fullfill the AE dps for rogues kinda like the stormcaller for mages! Now i spoke to a warrior friend who would love to have a specific build for AE encounters and then another build for just single target dps so they can switch depending on their role in the raid at that time. So if sab (even tho its a boring soul in its current form) could fullfill our AE dps needs would we be happy? or would we still be unsatisfied with the way we do dps? and if the latter is true how would ya be dissatisfied and what improvements would ya like to see that are not obviously OP!

    Again plz keep it on topic and plz refrain from insulting people in a direct way!

    Greetz styxxey

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    Warrior tanks don't pull 10k AOE DPS.

    Past that, tl;dr.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
    Not playing a warrior anymore because it's boring.
    11/11 HK | 4/4 ROTP | 0/8 ID

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    Warrior tanks don't pull 10k AOE DPS.

    Past that, tl;dr.
    plz read it again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Styxxey View Post
    plz read it again
    and i love my warrior tanks for putting over 10 k dps on AE pulls
    How am I reading that wrong...?
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
    Not playing a warrior anymore because it's boring.
    11/11 HK | 4/4 ROTP | 0/8 ID

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    How am I reading that wrong...?
    ok maybe ya read it right but surely ya understand i ment dps specced plate wearers on that remark

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Sorry man, after the 20'th "ya" where the word "you" should be, i couldn't bring myself to continue any further. However, the overall thrust of your post is simply to reignite worthless QQ anyway. Not everything has to be equal, and your opinion is irrelevant.

    Things are pretty balanced right now across the callings. Everything else is just whining.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Sorry man, after the 20'th "ya" where the word "you" should be, i couldn't bring myself to continue any further. However, the overall thrust of your post is simply to reignite worthless QQ anyway. Not everything has to be equal, and your opinion is irrelevant.

    Things are pretty balanced right now across the callings. Everything else is just whining.
    Heck, even I'm running out of things to complain about.

    If aillion follows through with fixing sab and PA's, all we'll really have left to whine about is energy, bard, tank and aoe damage. Depending on how good sab is at AoE maybe we won't even have that to worry about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  8. #8
    Isz
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    My thoughts from that thread:

    Rogues should be the top dps in short burst damage situations, but not in fights that last long. I dont' know why this doesn't get brought up more (the dps in relation to length of a fight)

    One example I see often is that MM's with fan out have the highest dps for AOE in short fights with limited amounts of mobs. If the fight runs longer or has more mobs, then clerics and mages fair better with AOE.

    Warriors should have top single target dps in sustained fights. (though BD should be close in this case)

    Mages should have top single target ranged DPS in sustained fights. (We should be close in this case with ranger.)

    We shouldn't have the highest sustained dps for long fights, it just doesn't make sense to the calling, and it disenfranchises the other callings when we do.

  9. #9
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    This pops up every patch. Two or three patches back I believe Dagler said that top DPS would never be based on the number of DPS souls a calling has. Aside from that, we as a community always throw a monkey wrench into the developers perfect plans. Yes, all dps should be competitive across all callings. All souls should have a unique feel and bring something to the game. Of course we have infinitely more time to test, strategize, and generally destroy any work that the developers do.

    Of course once one group breaks something in a new and unique way (sabdancer?) the devs have two coices: 1) Allow it. 2) Nerf it. Usually it's allowed (sabdancer) and later nerfed (1.5) or replaced by new shiny toys (again 1.5). Other times its nerfed (marksman/IQS) or double nerfed (marksman/IQS/mm crystal). And then there is the rare long lasting stagnation (bards).

    If you have been playing for a while you start to see trends, ebbs and flows. Most of the time these mirror the forums which can be both good and bad. Good when you need a boost; bad when you are at the top and broken a devs toy in a unique way. Currently as of today rogues are in an awesome spot. Bloodstalker is great single target DPS, MM brings awesome utility and still nice DPS. This worries me as the warriors and mages are grumbling which means a nerf is probably slated for 1.8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Sorry man, after the 20'th "ya" where the word "you" should be, i couldn't bring myself to continue any further. However, the overall thrust of your post is simply to reignite worthless QQ anyway. Not everything has to be equal, and your opinion is irrelevant.

    Things are pretty balanced right now across the callings. Everything else is just whining.
    sorry if my ya instead of you offended ya but im one of those people who are lazy typers (wouldnt think that if ya see the amount of typing that was done in that post)

    not everything has to be equal i agree to a certain extent that if the other way is viable but different then they are not equal but still get it done without putting yer raid through an uphill battle!

    Aside from that " MY OPINION " does matter since i pay the same amount you pay each month on top of that i think ya take the QQ term a bit broad cause im asking for other peoples opinions and ideas not to be berated by ya.

    Also i asked to keep it on topic... yer not adding anything to the conversation at all!

    PS see how i exchanged you for ya deliberately this time just to annoy you!

  11. #11
    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    Trion has stated unequivocally that they want all callings to be competitive with each other in all of their available roles.

    Every patch they seem to get a little bit closer to this goal.

    You'd think a dev saying that would shut everyone up with the class vs. class nonsense but I guess people don't read the forums as much as I do
    <Bastion>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Heck, even I'm running out of things to complain about.

    If aillion follows through with fixing sab and PA's, all we'll really have left to whine about is energy, bard, tank and aoe damage. Depending on how good sab is at AoE maybe we won't even have that to worry about.
    We could use an Ekkhard's Invocation type spell in BD, it's really hurt by any DPS stoppage longer than ~8 seconds due to the crystal having no way to refresh from range. This would also help with farming PA, since most specs for grinding cant afford to pick up ranged attacks
    Last edited by Adnoz; 02-08-2012 at 11:28 PM.

    (Gear)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShazzamCrucia View Post
    Trion has stated unequivocally that they want all callings to be competitive with each other in all of their available roles.

    Every patch they seem to get a little bit closer to this goal.

    You'd think a dev saying that would shut everyone up with the class vs. class nonsense but I guess people don't read the forums as much as I do
    WTB competitive healing Warriors, Rogues, and Chloros.
    Last edited by Am0n; 02-08-2012 at 11:49 PM.
    "You lost me at Balance"

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