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Thread: Rogues - Top DPS and why

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    1. before the parse site went down two rogues where in the top 50 parses. and they were not on the top of that list

    2. best utility? purge, silence, respectable dps, some mobility, over all good spec and is in the right place IMO. Not unique in the ability to purge and silence. on par yes.

    3. you can have bard since no rogues want to do it. Ill trade you bard for another tank soul. barding is by far the worst thing to play( I call it "getting in the barrel")

    4. no argument there. rift stalker is all over the place all the time. gets you killed more often than not unless the healer has a clue. is useful in some content for bosses. still its not the top tank and is behind in a lot of respects. I think other than the deflection itemization trion said was coming they are in a good place as a backup tank.
    1) If you paid any attention to your class forums, rogues are currently the top DPS as of 1.7 thanks to warrior and mage nerfs and rogue buffs. The top spec is Bloodstalker.
    2) Spammable purge is incredible utility. But past that, you have a snare, great burst DPS, ranged interrupt/silence, a healing debuff, and the best armor debuff in the game (I think?).
    3) Just because you don't like bard doesn't mean it's bad.
    4) RS is still "the best" at mobile tanking. Period. They also are not too far behind warrior tanks.
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  2. #17
    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    That sir is funny since today I was talking with the rogues about a spec we have been working on to bring the complication down a bit. It was ran tonight and preformed well. Come next week Ill will have the spec and be familiar enough with it to run it. Welcome this guy to the melee horde.
    When you die from crap melee AOE ill give you a big welcome.

    But generally hard rotations are hard because they maximize dps with obscure ways. That's where that last 100 dps comes from. I know I could switch my rotation on the fly if I get a double RNG proc, but I don't because I rather pay attention to raid issues. As a result I lose 50-75 dps potential. Look foward to Wednesday's results. Especially now that warriors are fixed ish.
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    Telaran Mammothtruk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    1) If you paid any attention to your class forums, rogues are currently the top DPS as of 1.7 thanks to warrior and mage nerfs and rogue buffs. The top spec is Bloodstalker.
    2) Spammable purge is incredible utility. But past that, you have a snare, great burst DPS, ranged interrupt/silence, a healing debuff, and the best armor debuff in the game (I think?).
    3) Just because you don't like bard doesn't mean it's bad.
    4) RS is still "the best" at mobile tanking. Period. They also are not too far behind warrior tanks.
    1. no warriors are still on top

    2. snare doesnt work on bosses, the armor debuff is STILL getting overridden so its useless, the burst dps isnt something useful outside of pvp, the healing debuff... yeah that is nice in various places. and that spammable purge is only useful to be spammed in pvp where its a requirement to even attempt to bring down buff heavy folks. Im not a huge pvper but when I do I am guilty of being that guy that purges healers and nb's.

    3. just because its useful (and very little at that) doesnt mean anyone wants to play it. no one does. in fact people will ninja log at the very idea of having to do it. or havent you talked to your guild rogues about it?

    4. mobile tanking is useful, yes. but its still not the best tank. And that mobility isnt useful in a majority of boss fights.

  4. #19
    Telaran Mammothtruk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebb View Post
    When you die from crap melee AOE ill give you a big welcome.

    But generally hard rotations are hard because they maximize dps with obscure ways. That's where that last 100 dps comes from. I know I could switch my rotation on the fly if I get a double RNG proc, but I don't because I rather pay attention to raid issues. As a result I lose 50-75 dps potential. Look foward to Wednesday's results. Especially now that warriors are fixed ish.
    you tanking? unless someone else is going to be tanking. Thought we were doing the thing.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    1. no warriors are still on top

    2. snare doesnt work on bosses, the armor debuff is STILL getting overridden so its useless, the burst dps isnt something useful outside of pvp, the healing debuff... yeah that is nice in various places. and that spammable purge is only useful to be spammed in pvp where its a requirement to even attempt to bring down buff heavy folks. Im not a huge pvper but when I do I am guilty of being that guy that purges healers and nb's.

    3. just because its useful (and very little at that) doesnt mean anyone wants to play it. no one does. in fact people will ninja log at the very idea of having to do it. or havent you talked to your guild rogues about it?

    4. mobile tanking is useful, yes. but its still not the best tank. And that mobility isnt useful in a majority of boss fights.
    1) Saying it doesn't make it true. I challenge you to go ask some of the top rogues what they parse on Sicaron and Murdantix, and what some of the top warriors parse on Sicaron/Murdantix. Just because your DPS is lower than your raid's warriors does not mean rogues are worse DPS -- Hint: It's not them, it's you.
    2) Armor Debuff is still the best in game, you still have snare, and spammable purge is useful because it by definition has a shorter CD. Places where such a thing is useful: Sicaron, ROTP minis.
    3) I've actually met quite a few people that love to bard. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean no one else does, and this still doesn't change the fact that it's required for a raid and is best at what it does.
    4) It's still the best mobile tank.
    Last edited by Hunt55511; 02-06-2012 at 10:19 PM.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
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  6. #21
    Telaran Mammothtruk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    1) Saying it doesn't make it true. I challenge you to go ask some of the top rogues what they parse on Sicaron and Murdantix, and what some of the top warriors parse on Sicaron/Murdantix. Just because your DPS is lower than your raid's warriors does not mean rogues are worse DPS -- Hint: It's not them, it's you.
    2) Armor Debuff is still the best in game, you still have snare, and spammable purge is useful because it by definition has a shorter CD. Places where such a thing is useful: Sicaron, ROTP minis.
    3) I've actually met quite a few people that love to bard. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean someone else does, and this still doesn't change the fact that it's required for a raid and is best at what it does.
    4) It's still the best mobile tank.
    1. I have, They are, Im not. Vylent on the other hand is and still isnt top.
    2. AC debuff isnt until it stops getting overridden by lesser buffs. Its annoying and should be fixed. The snare is worthless for bosses, but outside of that sure its useful. spammable purges get you killed on sic, get you killed on rotp minis... a CD purger is better for both jobs even if I still end up doing those for our guild.
    4. I dont disagree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    1. I have, They are, Im not. Vylent on the other hand is and still isnt top.
    2. AC debuff isnt until it stops getting overridden by lesser buffs. Its annoying and should be fixed. The snare is worthless for bosses, but outside of that sure its useful. spammable purges get you killed on sic, get you killed on rotp minis... a CD purger is better for both jobs even if I still end up doing those for our guild.
    4. I dont disagree?
    As I said, ask good rogues. 95% of decent raiders know that, as of 1.7 rogues are top DPS with mages/warriors/clerics close to each other yet lagging behind rogues. Rogues have gotten upwards of ~4.6k ST DPS on Sicaron, the best warriors have ever done on Sicaron is ~4.2k and we took a slight nerf to DPS in 1.7.1.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
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  8. #23
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    This thread is awesome. It is literally 3 pages filled with 3 people arguing back and forth, with random people chiming in from time to time to call them all stupid.

    This thread is pointless, rogues are top Single Target DPS right now because that's the way the re-balancing shook out. Our top ST spec has zero AoE, and is one of the only builds in this entire game that requires a tablet anymore. I see no reason for it to not be.

    But more importantly, opinions are totally irrelevant, especially the ones echoed thus far in this thread. This is about the most balanced DPS has ever been in Rift, that's all that matters.
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  9. #24
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    Will if you going to base it on soul dps tree. Then the logical conclusion would be mage and rouge be toped dps. Will archon and/or dom could be considered a .5 to full soul like. Thus it, would seem that both having the same amount of dps tree.

    Now remember warrior argument the reason why they should be top tanks is that they have more soul trees. The reason why they should be top dps is the lack of varsity. Which in it self a interesting argument. As it contradicts the first argument and Yet that always a perplexing argument. Thus it would pose a interesting solution.


    Nevertheless it has been shown when rogue pass warrior dps they have been a series of nerf to correct that problem. That only adds to the argument. While technically with more soul combination a class should do more dps. Hitherto it is in Trion world that the middle area that does the most dps. While the least and most are somewhere in between. What paradox for most players. Thus, it does pose a interesting set of circumstance that leads, most to believe that they should be top dps and yet except for mage they are not there yet.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrLith View Post
    oh.. thats news to me i've been seing so many rogues on warrior forums lately that i get confused.
    that would be because the rogue dev is unresponsive and in order to get a devs attention we must go to other callings forums. Unfortunately (..or fortunately) for you, the warrior dev does respond.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaydenFuhl View Post
    that would be because the rogue dev is unresponsive and in order to get a devs attention we must go to other callings forums. Unfortunately (..or fortunately) for you, the warrior dev does respond with nerfs.
    Fixed for you.
    Last edited by Hunt55511; 02-06-2012 at 10:54 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    As I said, ask good rogues. 95% of decent raiders know that, as of 1.7 rogues are top DPS with mages/warriors/clerics close to each other yet lagging behind rogues. Rogues have gotten upwards of ~4.6k ST DPS on Sicaron, the best warriors have ever done on Sicaron is ~4.2k and we took a slight nerf to DPS in 1.7.1.
    Warriors were doing upwards to around 4.8k on sicaron during 1.6 so I don't know where this 4.2k number is coming from. There have possibly been even higher parses but since riftlogs went down we haven't gotten to see them.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Warriors were doing upwards to around 4.8k on sicaron during 1.6 so I don't know where this 4.2k number is coming from. There have possibly been even higher parses but since riftlogs went down we haven't gotten to see them.
    The only time warriors were doing 4.8k iirc was when Crushing Runeshard was bugged. I might be wrong, though. Either way, we're doing lower damage than we were in 1.6.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammothtruk View Post
    2. AC debuff isnt until it stops getting overridden by lesser buffs. Its annoying and should be fixed. The snare is worthless for bosses, but outside of that sure its useful. spammable purges get you killed on sic, get you killed on rotp minis... a CD purger is better for both jobs even if I still end up doing those for our guild.
    So start a thread requesting that the better debuff not be over-written.

    If spammable purges are getting you killed then you should possibly tell your tanks to stop being bads? Or set up simple rotations? Also, Pvp matters and having a spammable, double purge when no one else has either is a pretty substantial strength in pvp.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bri bates View Post
    So start a thread requesting that the better debuff not be over-written.

    If spammable purges are getting you killed then you should possibly tell your tanks to stop being bads? Or set up simple rotations? Also, Pvp matters and having a spammable, double purge when no one else has either is a pretty substantial strength in pvp.
    What does spammable purges killing players have to do with how good/bad their tank is?
    Its a part of encounter mechanic?
    On Sicaron, purging puts a debuff on you that 1 shots you if you try once more, in RoTP each purge attempt hits you for 5k damage or so. If you repeat you kill yourself.
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