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Thread: Is there a viable marksmen build without ranger / shadow fire?

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    Ascendant Archemys's Avatar
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    Default Is there a viable marksmen build without ranger / shadow fire?

    I got my first 2 HK pieces last night and figured I may as well get the marksmen crystal too.

    Threw together a 44mm/rs/nb build and it was 2-300 below my 51/15 build even without the ranger crystal.

    Is there a viable MM/Sin build or something that doesn't rely on shadow fire for damage boost? The instant cast empowered shot seems pretty gimped compared to instant shadow fire/ splinter shot.
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    Isz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archemys View Post
    I got my first 2 HK pieces last night and figured I may as well get the marksmen crystal too.

    Threw together a 44mm/rs/nb build and it was 2-300 below my 51/15 build even without the ranger crystal.

    Is there a viable MM/Sin build or something that doesn't rely on shadow fire for damage boost? The instant cast empowered shot seems pretty gimped compared to instant shadow fire/ splinter shot.
    I would just get the ranger crystal andd run it in your MM spec. Thats the best way I've seen it done so far.

    I haven't heard of a better MM spec than the ranger one, SIN used to be a good choice, but they made all those weapon enchants on MM so you can't use the SIN poison at the same time anymore.

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    Champion ShazzamCrucia's Avatar
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    51mm/15sin is sort of viable -edit- however you will be dealing with an effectively shorter range on your attacks since you need to be applying expose weakness on cooldown in this build

    51mm/10nb/5rs or 51mm/13nb/2rs or...etc are sort of viable


    The numbers won't match using ranger as an offsoul but can come close, in my experience. You won't be maximizing your dps, however.


    As far as crystals go, with 4pc hk i think the MM crystal is better. Do remember that the crystal also resets the cooldown of empowered shot so you get a 2cp attack for every finisher.
    Last edited by ShazzamCrucia; 02-06-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShazzamCrucia View Post
    51mm/15sin is sort of viable

    51mm/10nb/5rs or 51mm/13nb/2rs or...etc are sort of viable


    The numbers won't match using ranger as an offsoul but can come close, in my experience. You won't be maximizing your dps, however.
    Depends on your gear level, really. At higher levels the bonus from Shadow Fire (and the ranger greater essence if you use it) can be more than offset by the massive amount of extra AP you gain from RS and the flat percentage increases in NB. The NB/RS variants lose a bit on AOE compared to ranger - as Fan Out is neither a builder nor a finisher, it doesn't benefit from the NB talents - but on straight-up single target DPS there's not much betweem them when you have enough base AP.

    Personally I use 10NB/5RS as my MM spec, because after you get the first finisher off it gives you an all-instant rotation, which means great mobility and no loss of DPS from having to purge/interrupt. You also get a very useful speed boost which is pretty much always on, and an endurance boost which helps on some of the more annoying encounters with heavy AOE damage. And when I don't need range, mobility, purging or interrupts, I won't be using MM anyway.

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    Try 51mm/10rng/5rs

    Make sure spend point into 1/1 crippling shot and 2/3 IQS in rng tree.

    It has the best mobility(you will get runspeed buff all the time and there's no single cast like "shadow fire" or "Deadeye shot.") as mm.(You will love it when theres moving fight like General Silgen, Grug, Akylios etc. )

    Use Hasted Shot and RPF as your finisher, use strafe whenever it's off CD.

    Tell me how you love it.
    Last edited by Aiai; 02-06-2012 at 09:55 AM.

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    I've been using this build: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...tRqdAudR.VMR.V

    I dropped the shadow fire greater and can now use my source machine for both melee and ranged with bis AP runes. This build is not for AP light rogues though. Self buffed I'm now sitting around 1280 AP, 1060 Crit. My dps probably dropped a bit, but it wasn't noticeable for being a utility soul. If this is your primary dps soul, go 15 ranger with the shadow fire greater and the ranger crystal for the two instant cast abilities.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    I have been using 51MM/13NB/2RS for months now in HK, and no one even noticed until i told them about a week ago. It is more energy starved without fervor, but that's because there are no cast time abilities at all. I like it because i don't have to waste an entire source machine on my MM spec, or waste a slot in my DPS machine for a greater that's only useful in one spec.

    51MM/13NB/2RS won't parse higher, but it will parse almost exactly the same, and since you don't have to cast Shadowfire you never have to worry about canceling an attack when you have to move and losing DPS. I won't ever go back to the ranger sub-soul unless something drastic were to change.
    Last edited by Gyle; 02-06-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    I have been using 51MM/13NB/2RS for months now in HK, and no one even noticed until i told them about a week ago. It is more energy starved without fervor, but that's because there are no cast time abilities at all. I like it because i don't have to waste an entire source machine on my MM spec, or waste a slot in my DPS machine for a greater that's only useful in one spec.

    51MM/13NB/2RS won't parse higher, but it will parse almost exactly the same, and since you don't have to cast Shadowfire you never have to worry about canceling an attack when you have to move and losing DPS. I won't ever go back to the ranger sub-soul unless something drastic were to change.
    I always thought the 51mm/10rn/5RS (vs 51mm/13nb/2rs) was better with higher gear and the ap gain.
    Time to look at it again.
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    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wytchblades View Post
    I always thought the 51mm/10rn/5RS (vs 51mm/13nb/2rs) was better with higher gear and the ap gain.
    Time to look at it again.
    I've tried both with near-as-dammit BIS gear and noticed almost no difference. I think with all raid buffs up the 5RS version might be slightly ahead, but there's not much in it either way. Although having said that, I haven't had the chance to do any proper DPS testing since 1.7, and I gained a ridiculous amount of AP overnight, so I would hazard a guess that 5RS is ahead now.

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    Plane Touched Harby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    I have been using 51MM/13NB/2RS for months now in HK, and no one even noticed until i told them about a week ago. It is more energy starved without fervor, but that's because there are no cast time abilities at all. I like it because i don't have to waste an entire source machine on my MM spec, or waste a slot in my DPS machine for a greater that's only useful in one spec.

    51MM/13NB/2RS won't parse higher, but it will parse almost exactly the same, and since you don't have to cast Shadowfire you never have to worry about canceling an attack when you have to move and losing DPS. I won't ever go back to the ranger sub-soul unless something drastic were to change.
    Interesting. Are you utilizing any NB attacks in your rotation? If so, please elaborate, seems like a really interesting build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harby View Post
    Interesting. Are you utilizing any NB attacks in your rotation? If so, please elaborate, seems like a really interesting build.
    I've been using 51MM/13NB/2RS for a few weeks also. There is nothing interesting about it. It uses all MM attacks. The points in NB are just for combo point damage/finishers & F&D.

    No need for Head Shot. No need for Shadowfire. No need for Shadowfire Greaters. No need to have cast time attacks. Just RFS and Hasted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    A rogue can top the parse on every boss in HK if they use the right spec, and it's been that way for months.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petgroup View Post
    I've been using 51MM/13NB/2RS for a few weeks also. There is nothing interesting about it. It uses all MM attacks. The points in NB are just for combo point damage/finishers & F&D.

    No need for Head Shot. No need for Shadowfire. No need for Shadowfire Greaters. No need to have cast time attacks. Just RFS and Hasted.
    ^This. The only macros i use are a RFS/Hasted Shot macro and a Bullseye/Deadeye shot macro. CP builders are Empowered Shot (when instant, which is always since you only use MM finishers) and Swift Shot, which i keep on separate buttons.

    This is the build btw http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...tRqdAudR.V0x0h

    One nice thing about the NB build is that the %damage increase on Fire and Death Attunement increases your EM damage, which the %damage increase on Shadowfire does not. EM is not a "ranged attack" so shadowfire does nothing to it.

    Also what little damage you lose in AoE is made up for by the fact that you never have to cast Shadowfire while AoEing, so you pick a lot of that back up over the long run.
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    Isz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    ^This. The only macros i use are a RFS/Hasted Shot macro and a Bullseye/Deadeye shot macro. CP builders are Empowered Shot (when instant, which is always since you only use MM finishers) and Swift Shot, which i keep on separate buttons.

    This is the build btw http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...tRqdAudR.V0x0h

    One nice thing about the NB build is that the %damage increase on Fire and Death Attunement increases your EM damage, which the %damage increase on Shadowfire does not. EM is not a "ranged attack" so shadowfire does nothing to it.

    Also what little damage you lose in AoE is made up for by the fact that you never have to cast Shadowfire while AoEing, so you pick a lot of that back up over the long run.
    I used to do 51MM/13NB/2xx for a long time and someone convinced me ranger was better than NB. I haven't really been liking it and I think I'm going to go back to this build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    CP builders are Empowered Shot (when instant, which is always since you only use MM finishers) and Swift Shot, which i keep on separate buttons.
    What I usually do is start off with a strafe, finisher, then you have instant empowerred to start your usual rotation.

    Empowerred I have macro'd with swift. And the macro is bound to a mouse button. What can I say, I'm really lazy.

    It does seem to be about 200ish dps lower than an equivalant geared MM / ranger build on most fights, but you soon see that difference dissapear on a movement intensive fight and you're much more effective at interrupt / purge with all insta cast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    One nice thing about the NB build is that the %damage increase on Fire and Death Attunement increases your EM damage, which the %damage increase on Shadowfire does not. EM is not a "ranged attack" so shadowfire does nothing to it.
    I never actually considerred that. May have to start and keep EM on for AOE as well.
    Last edited by ewarwoo; 02-06-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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    I also like the nb/rs marksman. Maybe it's a bit less dps, but increased mobility, easier to play and no specific stones required. Also works nice in PVP.

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